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The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#81

Post by mattigames »

asp_hornet wrote: post #4
barry-cotter wrote: post #3

My god, it must be so unpleasant to be the kind of person who thinks about that for the hours necessary to write an essay like the one he wrote ten years ago, and to continue stewing on it for ten years. I’ve lived in China for more than seven years and I definitely have an empty seat beside me on the metro more often than Chinese people and children and tourists say 老外(foreigner) regularly enough. So what? Life is g…

> I’m never going to be Chineses, same as he’s never going to be Japanese. If that bugs him why not go home? No one’s making him stay in Japan. I’m so happy to read this comment. I lived in Japan for 4 years and had the same feeling. People are always upset they’re not seen as Japanese despite the fact they are indeed not Japanese. I could see an argument if you were a child of a western parent, born and raised in Ja…

Downvoted; the author clearly doesn't have much problem with not be seen as Japanese, he has a problem with being seen as a human being one should not sit next to.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#82

Post by mattigames »

barry-cotter wrote: post #3

My god, it must be so unpleasant to be the kind of person who thinks about that for the hours necessary to write an essay like the one he wrote ten years ago, and to continue stewing on it for ten years. I’ve lived in China for more than seven years and I definitely have an empty seat beside me on the metro more often than Chinese people and children and tourists say 老外(foreigner) regularly enough. So what? Life is g…

Downvoted; the author clearly doesn't have much problem with not be seen as Japanese, he has a problem with being seen as a human being one should not sit next to.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#83

Post by barry-cotter »

yibg wrote: post #71
barry-cotter wrote: post #3

My god, it must be so unpleasant to be the kind of person who thinks about that for the hours necessary to write an essay like the one he wrote ten years ago, and to continue stewing on it for ten years. I’ve lived in China for more than seven years and I definitely have an empty seat beside me on the metro more often than Chinese people and children and tourists say 老外(foreigner) regularly enough. So what? Life is g…

I see this type of attitude applied to non western countries a lot and I never understood it. It also bothers me a great deal. I’m ethnically Chinese but have lived in either the US or Canada for most of my life. I’ve been the beneficiary to the changing attitude towards minorities here and have seen how things have changed for the better in my time here. Imagine if the pervasive attitude has been “You are being disc…

I’m not a Western Imperialist. I don’t particularly like the way China is run but I’m not under the illusion anyone cares. If you as an American feel like imposing your culture in China by all means go for it but please wait until after I leave.

The opinions of foreigners about a countries internal affairs are relevant insofar as they are backed up by heavy weaponry, except as literary exercises.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#84

Post by reustle »

laurieg wrote: post #45

As a visible minority in Japan, experiences like this are extremely commonplace. In fact, I think the frequency is the most troublesome part. Every time you step out of the house there is someone there to remind you you are foreign. Just moments ago I bought some donuts and the woman in the shop awkwardly gestured at me instead of speaking to me. Obviously, this is not the end of the world and it's nothing to lose sl…

> Every time you step out of the house there is someone there to remind you you are foreign.

In my 2+ years here, I think I can count these cases on one hand. I think you may be picking out things that aren't actually unique to you being a foreigner, or your body language is just making it look like you're completely oblivious to what is going on in the interaction so they feel the need to make the communication extra clear.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#85

Post by rdl »

hervature wrote: post #48
rdl wrote: post #8

I'd never sit in the last or even last 10% or so of seats on a subway train, as a healthy middle-aged man who isn't escorting a child or something. I'd also be highly suspect of a man who did that, and would be reluctant to sit next to him if I were disabled/woman/with-child/etc. Much more so in Japan. The illustration also shows him seated in a 'priority seat' where I'd never sit even if the train were empty. (This…

No/low priority doesn’t mean forbidden. Also, how is a healthy man different than a healthy woman? Both genders have the same ability to stand?

I don't want to sit in a priority seat because some disabled/etc. people (including someone who appears healthy but has some hidden health problem, etc.) has to actually ask you to get up, etc.

Male vs. female is a societal thing. I don't really think younger women should have particular priority in seating, but I'd probably say a middle-aged woman would have reasonable priority over a middle-aged man, all things being equal. There are enough cultures where women > men for this particular issue that I tend to go with it, though.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#87

Post by yibg »

barry-cotter wrote: post #83
yibg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this type of attitude applied to non western countries a lot and I never understood it. It also bothers me a great deal. I’m ethnically Chinese but have lived in either the US or Canada for most of my life. I’ve been the beneficiary to the changing attitude towards minorities here and have seen how things have changed for the better in my time here. Imagine if the pervasive attitude has been “You are being disc…

I’m not a Western Imperialist. I don’t particularly like the way China is run but I’m not under the illusion anyone cares. If you as an American feel like imposing your culture in China by all means go for it but please wait until after I leave. The opinions of foreigners about a countries internal affairs are relevant insofar as they are backed up by heavy weaponry, except as literary exercises.

No one is talking about imposing anything and certainly not about externally. The article is someone living in japan discussing cultural / racial issues in japan. I’m of the opinion that these things should be raised and discussed instead of just “if you don’t like it go back to where you came from”.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#88

Post by episteme »

flippinburgers wrote: post #75

I've been living in Japan longer than this guy and I can say that these sorts of things happen, but I find it totally ridiculous to get upset about them. If you are angered about the way your are treated, you really should return to your home country. I say this because the level of self-absorption in this mentality is astounding. People are naturally going tend to feel a range of emotions around a foreigner that the…

If you don't like racism, go back to where you came from..?

Are the Japanese also against freedom of speech? Writing an article about racism is not "forcefully" doing anything.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#89

Post by barry-cotter »

yibg wrote: post #87
barry-cotter wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a Western Imperialist. I don’t particularly like the way China is run but I’m not under the illusion anyone cares. If you as an American feel like imposing your culture in China by all means go for it but please wait until after I leave. The opinions of foreigners about a countries internal affairs are relevant insofar as they are backed up by heavy weaponry, except as literary exercises.

No one is talking about imposing anything and certainly not about externally. The article is someone living in japan discussing cultural / racial issues in japan. I’m of the opinion that these things should be raised and discussed instead of just “if you don’t like it go back to where you came from”.

Well they are being discussed by Americans. He reached his intended audience.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#90

Post by laurieg »

reustle wrote: post #84
laurieg wrote: post #45

As a visible minority in Japan, experiences like this are extremely commonplace. In fact, I think the frequency is the most troublesome part. Every time you step out of the house there is someone there to remind you you are foreign. Just moments ago I bought some donuts and the woman in the shop awkwardly gestured at me instead of speaking to me. Obviously, this is not the end of the world and it's nothing to lose sl…

> Every time you step out of the house there is someone there to remind you you are foreign. In my 2+ years here, I think I can count these cases on one hand. I think you may be picking out things that aren't actually unique to you being a foreigner, or your body language is just making it look like you're completely oblivious to what is going on in the interaction so they feel the need to make the communication extr…

I'm not doubting you, but I find it genuinely puzzling how our experiences can be so different.

For me, being treated differently to Japanese looking people is just the norm. At first I assumed it was my Japanese level or some other feature, but I think you can't ignore the obvious difference. The other thing that sealed the deal in my mind is how I get spoken to very differently on the telephone compared to face-to-face.

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