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Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

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Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#101
post #74
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside: I bet you "a signed dollar" that Le Bron James is not the first verifiably recorded case of an adult posessing a photographic (eidetic) memory. [1] Without singling out Mr James it is reasonable to very, very skeptical about any strong claims of ability of any famous person outside the field for which they are famous. Hype is a thing pushed by entourages if not the famous person themselves. Mr James' proficien…

I didn't claim he was the first case? That would be ridiculous. And this is a tangent, but I used that example to subtly poke at this kind of "common wisdom": Mr James' proficiency is basketball is super-human and impressive enough by itself. It is very unlikely that he is also super-human in other dimensions. Why do you think that an exceptional memory would not contribute to exceptional basketball playing? Are thos…

Yep. Looking at those links in particular Le Bron James has made no claims that he has a photographic memory and it seems he does not have one. Maybe he's deliberately hiding it but that seems unlikely.

Precise recollection of detail is not a photographic memory by any of the usual definitions of that term. Photographic memory != impressive memory display. The BBC link you provide suggests there isn't anything especially remarkable about his impressive memory for detail in a just played match and that such is quite common among highly trained athletes. I'm told it's common for cricketers to be able to recall the detail every single ball they faced in a score of over 200. ie facing more than 500 separate deliveries. I'm impressed by it, it's great. It isn't photographic memory.

I'm not belittling him, the levels of training and skill he has attained are utterly amazing. If a very famous person is also a decent human being through it all and uses their fame for a positive impact on the world that is far more impressive to me than claims of additional genius outside their field of expertise.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#102
post #8

So I wonder: psychedelics make you more likely to believe woo, and more likely to have certain classes of visual hallucinations. But some people believe woo without taking psychedelics, and some people have those same visual hallucinations without taking psychedelics. Interesting, I believe it and have always wondered about this. I think people's sensory experiences vary wildly by nature, but we have no access to the…

These are hypnagogic hallucinations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia . People experience them while falling asleep.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although I can also conjure some low-level hallucinations when "looking at the back of my eyelids" when falling asleep. I imagine that's pretty normal/common since low light is sort of like sensory deprivation. Me too, and it's definitely a result of taking psychedelics. I quite like it. I suspect that I could have always made those CEVs appear, but I didn't "know how" until taking psychedelics. In other words, I h…

> Me too, and it's definitely a result of taking psychedelics. I quite like it. I suspect that I could have always made those CEVs appear, but I didn't "know how" until taking psychedelics. Me too and it's probably not a result of taking psychedelics; as I've never tried them recreationally. I did, however, have vivid hallucinations as a result of Nitrous oxide at the dentist office as a child. I don't think I see fl…

If you apply pressure to your eyes, you'll see phosphenes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphene).

You can also see them during meditation, and as hypnagogic hallucinations while you're falling asleep (but you might not remember this).

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#105

I'm the one who provided the third quoted anecdote in the article. What I didn't mention was the HPPD coincided with a sort of depersonalization/derealization effect. Basically I got very checked out from my own life. I felt as if I was a spectator watching my life happen and I didn't really feel any connection or agency towards anything coming into my sensorium. It was a really weird and hard time for me. Those feel…

DP/DR is like that.

Psychedelics are a tool that can be used to remove psychological disorders, but in the same vain can be used to create psychological disorders.

In an ideal world, if psychedelics were legal, they'd come with an instruction manual.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#106
post #76
post #8

So I wonder: psychedelics make you more likely to believe woo, and more likely to have certain classes of visual hallucinations. But some people believe woo without taking psychedelics, and some people have those same visual hallucinations without taking psychedelics. Interesting, I believe it and have always wondered about this. I think people's sensory experiences vary wildly by nature, but we have no access to the…

> I can also conjure some low-level hallucinations when "looking at the back of my eyelids" when falling asleep. Sounds like a closed-eye hallucination ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-eye_hallucination ) caused by the Ganzfeld effect ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect ). I get these too, usually just if I concentrate. I think they've been easier to get since I tried mushrooms a couple of times, bu…

This is absolutely fascinating. Not too long ago I thought that everyone experienced level 3, and occasionally level 4 effects, but I learned that my friends did not. The first link says that it's rare without psychedelic drugs. I've never tried any psychedelics, but I regularly experience level 3 effects, and occasionally level 4 ones too. I can't remember a time when I didn't.

I also frequently experience/remember hypnagogia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia), which I previously did not know the name of. I absolutely love experiencing it, as it's often euphoric, although it can sometimes be terrifying and stressful.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#107
post #8

So I wonder: psychedelics make you more likely to believe woo, and more likely to have certain classes of visual hallucinations. But some people believe woo without taking psychedelics, and some people have those same visual hallucinations without taking psychedelics. Interesting, I believe it and have always wondered about this. I think people's sensory experiences vary wildly by nature, but we have no access to the…

> I think people's sensory experiences vary wildly by nature, but we have no access to them so can't really prove anything.

> ... some people have photographic memories (e.g. Lebron James apparently); some people can factor large numbers in their heads (computation), or recite huge strings of digits (non-episodic memory).

Many of these sensory experiences can be empirically and objectively analyzed. For example, photographic memory is not a real thing. Nobody has ever shown the ability to recall particular details of a scene which they hadn't already focused or been cued on. There's been considerable, sincere effort invested in testing these claims, both in claimants and random individuals. (There are people who remember endless amounts of seemingly non-episodic daily trivia of their everyday life for literally every day of their life, but this isn't photographic memory and definitely doesn't describe LeBron James.)

Large number mental arithmetic and recitation of long strings (or other trivia) is a learnable skill, though many people develop the skill independently, many of whom describe their techniques in a manner that comports with well-known techniques.

Sources: "Moonwalking with Einstein: The Art and Science of Remembering Everything" by an American journalist who became the American Memory Champion as part of his research; "Your memory: how it works and how to improve it" by Kenneth L. Higbee, a professor of psychology who has a personal interest in mnemonics techniques; and "The Art of Memory" by Frances A. Yates who traces the historical practice of the Method of Loci from Ancient Greece and its transformation into esotericism by the time of the Renaissance.

Of course, there's no accounting for people who believe and feel they have a photographic memory[1], just like there can be no accounting for people who believe they're being personally surveilled 24/7 by hidden cameras everywhere. But that doesn't mean I have to accept that there are some people who are actually inexplicably and secretly being surveilled; left to wonder why I'm so lucky/unlucky.

Conversely, there are some people with a real, extraordinary sense, like tetrachromats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy#Humans), who have a fourth peak in their color spectrum reception. They see the world in much richer color than normal humans, and this has been empirically verified.

[1] Indeed, I'm pretty sure most people (myself included) feel like they can shut their eyes and retain a photographic picture of a scene. I was told I had a photographic memory by many different teachers, going back to at least third grade. But, again, it doesn't stand up to scientific experimentation. And I never believed my teachers as it was always self-evident to me that while I may have remembered more seemingly esoteric facts or events than they did, it was because I had consciously found those things curious, however briefly. (As an adult I was diagnosed with ADHD, which perhaps goes a long way to explaining why so many things caught my attention.)

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#109
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can also conjure some low-level hallucinations when "looking at the back of my eyelids" when falling asleep. Sounds like a closed-eye hallucination ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-eye_hallucination ) caused by the Ganzfeld effect ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect ). I get these too, usually just if I concentrate. I think they've been easier to get since I tried mushrooms a couple of times, bu…

This is absolutely fascinating. Not too long ago I thought that everyone experienced level 3, and occasionally level 4 effects, but I learned that my friends did not. The first link says that it's rare without psychedelic drugs. I've never tried any psychedelics, but I regularly experience level 3 effects, and occasionally level 4 ones too. I can't remember a time when I didn't. I also frequently experience/remember…

I can conjure 4 when I want (and I do when I cannot fall asleep); I would say that is because I did try psychedelics a few times decades ago and the trick to ‘see things’ still works like that.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#110

I'm the one who provided the third quoted anecdote in the article. What I didn't mention was the HPPD coincided with a sort of depersonalization/derealization effect. Basically I got very checked out from my own life. I felt as if I was a spectator watching my life happen and I didn't really feel any connection or agency towards anything coming into my sensorium. It was a really weird and hard time for me. Those feel…

Alan Watts wrote:

> “Psychedelic experience is only a glimpse of genuine mystical insight, but a glimpse which can be matured and deepened by the various ways of meditation in which drugs are no longer necessary or useful. When you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope; he goes away and works on what he has seen.”

What message, if any, were you looking for during your psychedelic explorations? Did you receive it?

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