The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train • Hacker News Board

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#21

Post by rimliu » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #13

asp_hornet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m never going to be Chineses, same as he’s never going to be Japanese. If that bugs him why not go home? No one’s making him stay in Japan. I’m so happy to read this comment. I lived in Japan for 4 years and had the same feeling. People are always upset they’re not seen as Japanese despite the fact they are indeed not Japanese. I could see an argument if you were a child of a western parent, born and raised in Ja…

I hear you, but I also notice how different the expectations and standards are around race in the west. If we transplant some of the things said above into America, I notice I have a very different reaction. Eg, “[Because he’s not white] he’s never going to be American. If that bugs him, why not go home? Nobody is making him stay in America.” “[Immigrants] are just foreigners living in America with a chip on their sh…

Race probably not the issue there, at least not tonthw degree some assume it is. I've seen the very same santiment "you will never be X" from the people which emigrated to the countries where the wast majority is of the same race.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#22

Post by ddiq » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

theroo wrote: post #18

ddiq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "unfair treatment," it's perfectly normal for people to feel more comfortable around their own. They don't know if this guy knows train etiquette, if he has body odor - only around 10% of East Asians do, or maybe it's just that he's wider than the average Japanese person, as it appears so from his picture. He's a guest in their country, and it's impudent for him to think he has the right to be sat next to at…

He’s black. Did you read that part?

Of course, I commented on his picture and it would be pretty hard to notice his width and not his race. I don't see why this is pertinent, though, he's not Japanese and I was commenting on the fact that he's not Japanese, not on what race he was.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#23

Post by barry-cotter » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

theroo wrote: post #6

barry-cotter wrote: post #3

My god, it must be so unpleasant to be the kind of person who thinks about that for the hours necessary to write an essay like the one he wrote ten years ago, and to continue stewing on it for ten years. I’ve lived in China for more than seven years and I definitely have an empty seat beside me on the metro more often than Chinese people and children and tourists say 老外(foreigner) regularly enough. So what? Life is g…

I think when you experience prejudice regarding your race, it’s unfair to characterize that as “stewing”. Maybe you don’t find this article or his initial piece insightful; that’s fair enough. But I also think it’s fair of him to shine a light on unfair treatment in the place he lives, without people suggesting - without irony - that he “go home”.

If you spend extensive time reflecting on an injustice you can’t do anything about and that isn’t going to change that is absolutely “stewing”. I know someone who is still bitter at someone years dead and brings them up to bash them regularly. They were wronged and they’re stewing.

The article’s plenty insightful, it provides a wonderful insight into what it’s like to be the author, and secondarily, an aspect of being a foreigner in Japan that obviously really disturbs some.

There’s no need for quotation marks on home in your last paragraph. Mr. McNeil is not attempting to be Japanese. He’s professionally American in Japan. He writes for English language publications, campaigns for American cultural attitudes and despite living in Japan for 15 years and being a writer his Wikipedia page is only in English.

If he’s being treated unfairly there’s no evidence of it in the linked article.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#24

Post by ctack » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

rdl wrote: post #8

I'd never sit in the last or even last 10% or so of seats on a subway train, as a healthy middle-aged man who isn't escorting a child or something. I'd also be highly suspect of a man who did that, and would be reluctant to sit next to him if I were disabled/woman/with-child/etc. Much more so in Japan. The illustration also shows him seated in a 'priority seat' where I'd never sit even if the train were empty. (This…

I did wonder about his needing to sit in a crowded train at all. Maybe he’s passed middle age?

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#25

Post by 55555 » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #13

asp_hornet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m never going to be Chineses, same as he’s never going to be Japanese. If that bugs him why not go home? No one’s making him stay in Japan. I’m so happy to read this comment. I lived in Japan for 4 years and had the same feeling. People are always upset they’re not seen as Japanese despite the fact they are indeed not Japanese. I could see an argument if you were a child of a western parent, born and raised in Ja…

I hear you, but I also notice how different the expectations and standards are around race in the west. If we transplant some of the things said above into America, I notice I have a very different reaction. Eg, “[Because he’s not white] he’s never going to be American. If that bugs him, why not go home? Nobody is making him stay in America.” “[Immigrants] are just foreigners living in America with a chip on their sh…

> Eg, “[Because he’s not white] he’s never going to be American. If that bugs him, why not go home? Nobody is making him stay in America.”

No, because America is not a racially homogenous society. Japan mostly is. Japan's residents are 98% japanese and most of the other 2% are other asians.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#26

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

theroo wrote: post #18

ddiq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "unfair treatment," it's perfectly normal for people to feel more comfortable around their own. They don't know if this guy knows train etiquette, if he has body odor - only around 10% of East Asians do, or maybe it's just that he's wider than the average Japanese person, as it appears so from his picture. He's a guest in their country, and it's impudent for him to think he has the right to be sat next to at…

He’s black. Did you read that part?

[deleted]

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#27

Post by ddiq » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

kochikame wrote: post #20

barry-cotter wrote: post #3

My god, it must be so unpleasant to be the kind of person who thinks about that for the hours necessary to write an essay like the one he wrote ten years ago, and to continue stewing on it for ten years. I’ve lived in China for more than seven years and I definitely have an empty seat beside me on the metro more often than Chinese people and children and tourists say 老外(foreigner) regularly enough. So what? Life is g…

Baye McNeil is famous for finding racism where there usually isn't any.

There's always an explanation where the answer is racism, even if it isn't the correct explanation.

Wider than the average Japanese person and crowding the seat(s) next to you? They must not sit next to him because he's black.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#28

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 5:00 AM UTC

akincisor wrote: post #5

barry-cotter wrote: post #3

My god, it must be so unpleasant to be the kind of person who thinks about that for the hours necessary to write an essay like the one he wrote ten years ago, and to continue stewing on it for ten years. I’ve lived in China for more than seven years and I definitely have an empty seat beside me on the metro more often than Chinese people and children and tourists say 老外(foreigner) regularly enough. So what? Life is g…

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

And some unreasonable men jump of bridges in an attempt to adapt gravity to themselves.

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#29

Post by taneq » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 5:00 AM UTC

theroo wrote: post #18

ddiq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "unfair treatment," it's perfectly normal for people to feel more comfortable around their own. They don't know if this guy knows train etiquette, if he has body odor - only around 10% of East Asians do, or maybe it's just that he's wider than the average Japanese person, as it appears so from his picture. He's a guest in their country, and it's impudent for him to think he has the right to be sat next to at…

He’s black. Did you read that part?

How does that affect the situation? Is it objectionable for a Japanese person to avoid a seat next to a black person but not a white person?

Re: The empty seat on a crowded Japanese train

#30

Post by knzhou » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 5:02 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #13

asp_hornet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m never going to be Chineses, same as he’s never going to be Japanese. If that bugs him why not go home? No one’s making him stay in Japan. I’m so happy to read this comment. I lived in Japan for 4 years and had the same feeling. People are always upset they’re not seen as Japanese despite the fact they are indeed not Japanese. I could see an argument if you were a child of a western parent, born and raised in Ja…

I hear you, but I also notice how different the expectations and standards are around race in the west. If we transplant some of the things said above into America, I notice I have a very different reaction. Eg, “[Because he’s not white] he’s never going to be American. If that bugs him, why not go home? Nobody is making him stay in America.” “[Immigrants] are just foreigners living in America with a chip on their sh…

America actually is unique among countries. I could move to Japan, but I'll never be Japanese; I could also move to Denmark, but I'll never be a Dane. But I moved to America and now I am American.

The vast majority of countries don't work this way, nor would it be better for all of them to. But it's great that at least one does.