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VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

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Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#161
post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

> This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products.

Beauty is relative. I find the look of Tesla “dorky”, especially the piggy nose of the Model 3. However, I’d not defend a design of id.3.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#162
post #66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like a Golf... It's a very classic design for VW.

More like the Polo, the cheapest and smallest of the VWs. For me it's also not an appealing look for such an expensive vehicle.

Up! is the cheapest and smallest.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#163
post #94
post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

> WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? Because when the first Prius launched, it looked like a normal car. Nobody wanted to buy one. The second-generation Prius had an incredibly conspicuous shape, and it sold like hotcakes.

It's true that companies generally style hybrid/electric vehicles to look a little weird, but....

    Because when the first Prius launched, it looked like a normal car.
It was rather ugly in most people's opinions. From some angles it looks more bizarre than the subsequent Priuses.

See the various generations here: https://global.toyota/en/prius20th/evolution/

Seriously, it was a very odd-looking car: http://www.imcdb.org/i044705.jpg

To the extent that it looked like "a normal car", it looked like an absolute bargain-basment Toyota along the lines of a Tercel or something. Different is one thing; different and ugly is quite another.

    Nobody wanted to buy one.
It was only sold "in limited numbers" in the US.

According to Toyota, the company was only "breaking even" on each one sold. They weren't really pushing them either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#First_generation_...

    The second-generation Prius had an incredibly conspicuous 
    shape, and it sold like hotcakes. 
Convenient narrative, but I'd say it's completely false. At best, it's only a small part of the story.

It's not as if the second-gen was a simple rebadge of the first-gen with weirder looks.

First-gen was a funky sedan of limited utility and performance. Additionally the concept of a hybrid vehicle was bizarre and foreign at the time.

The second-gen was a massive improvement in every way. Significant and objective improvements in power, range, comfort, capacity, and so on. Furthermore the hatchback/fastback body style is of much greater convenience and utility.

As far as looks... while it was certainly unconventionial and perhaps not beautiful, the second-gen model looked more "futuristic family car" and less "weird ultra-budget sedan" like the first one.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#164
post #53

It's worth noting that VW's 2018 target for EV's was 300,000 units. They fell 217,000 units short: https://www.wired.com/2010/07/vw-300k-evs-annually-2018/ I want the company to succeed at EV's more than anyone but if the rollout of the e-tron is any indication it is not going to be smooth sailing: https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/19/18508066/audi-etron-delay...

Is that why VW was doing very aggressive discounts on the eGolfs a couple months ago? I got mine, a 2019, for dirt cheap, little over 12k new before the tax credits.

Just curious what region you’re in? I’m in the Southeast US and haven’t been able to find anything too far below MSRP for them.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What car looks good to you?

The two current sibling comments are pretty on the mark. Alfas, Land Rovers. I quite like some of the BMWs. Fiat and Citroen are, on the more reasonably priced end of the spectrum, doing innovative/interesting things that are at the very least not bland.

"I quite like some of the BMWs."

GRILLs, Grills everywhere!

Yaawwwwhhhrrrrr! Grrrrrrrrr!

Grills == BBQ == Manly!

Sorry, I'm just poking fun. There are so many auto style people that go ga-ga over something that is fundamentally inefficient aerodynamically.

I'd like to note that Fiat and Citroen, based on my rather sparse knowledge, are basically not even bothering with EVs at the moment.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#166
post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

My sense is that automakers believe that low-emissions cars will not sell well unless people can acquire them as a means of signalling virtue and wealth. In other words, unless the car is instantly identifiable as a fancy new EV, a large subset of potential buyers will lack interest. I suspect this is mostly myth propped up by apocryphal assertions that Prius sold well due to its distinct look. But I am just a long-t…

It's interesting then, that the new Peugeot 208 range has identical bodywork across the range regardless of whether they have electric, petrol or diesel drivetrains. Personally, I'm disappointed when a car isn't designed from scratch to take full advantage of the packaging options of an electric drivetrain, but see this as a reasonable compromise for manufacturers at the present time.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#168
post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

It doesn't look like a Prius at all, looks much nicer in the videos than in pictures. The non-white models with typical rims could easily be mistaken for a hatchback Golf.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#169
post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

My sense is that automakers believe that low-emissions cars will not sell well unless people can acquire them as a means of signalling virtue and wealth. In other words, unless the car is instantly identifiable as a fancy new EV, a large subset of potential buyers will lack interest. I suspect this is mostly myth propped up by apocryphal assertions that Prius sold well due to its distinct look. But I am just a long-t…

> I suspect this is mostly myth propped up by apocryphal assertions that Prius sold well due to its distinct look

What I read was that the sales of Toyota's hybrid versions of their "normal-looking cars" (Camry Hybrid, etc) were disappointing in comparison to the Prius (especially if the theory is that people were avoiding the Prius due to design and would prefer a less-radical car that still got great gas mileage). I don't know if there's any truth to that.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#170
post #140

Reminds me of a quote I read about the gap between what the electric car market wants and what legacy carmakers produce - "Carmakers keep designing these cars thinking we want to buy their new electric cars, they don't realize we just want to buy their regular cars, in electric"

It reminds me of software firms using rewrites to try out all the things they have been wanting to do.

It's easy to ignoring the thousand small tweaks you've made over the years in response to user feedback or bugs or the little details that came up after-the-fact.

You think it's just the base feature you need to recreate, then a few months in you're stuck in the weeds recreating the hundred details you didn't factor into the redesign.

(this is my life, I rebuild rails/jquery features into far better designed Vue.js ones with powerful flexibility added on top and constantly get hung up on the details)

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