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Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

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Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls" -Aristophanes The public learns the lesson that X is necessary when they see the consequence of not-X. Hopefully there is a gap between total lawlessness and the public realising that some laws are good and not just "red tape".

I had hoped that things under trump would have been much worse, so as to shock the public into re-evaluating their civic values.

I've always been rather suspicious of this way of reasoning. It basically goes, "Things aren't as bad as they need to be for people to change their ways, so hopefully they get worse so people change their ways." And it is implicit in this line of reasoning that there is some terrible and inevitable catastrophe waiting to befall the people who don't change their ways. (Because why would a catastrophe be worth it, unless it prevented another, worse, catastrophe?)

An alternate response to "Things aren't bad enough for people to change their ways," is to revise our predictions of the likelihood of catastrophe, and eventually decide that perhaps things aren't quite as doomed as we think.

For things like climate change, where we have scientific evidence of the necessity of change, it seems like it needs to get worse before the change will happen, though I still don't hope for things to get worse. But for something as subjective as civic values, it seems especially wrong to me to hope for disaster just for the sake of shaking things up. After all, there's no guarantee that a disaster under Trump would move civic values in the right direction anyway.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've not run across one yet that wasn't well-reasoned, Then you cannot listen to many. Joe speaks so much bollox with an authoritative air that if you didn't know the subject you would think that Joe did, when many many times he clearly does not. I agree they are interesting when he lets the guest speak (even if completely disagree with them) or it is on something Joe does know about / has researched. But that is f…

I think you’re right. But... Joe Rogan often claims he’s not a genius, and not an expert in many topics. I also feel his fan community strongly understands this. There are a lot of YouTube videos making fun of his mannerisms and when he might be too high on an interview. To me this is as good as it gets for a talk show that has a wide ranging set of topics like the JRE. Joe Rogan isn’t an expert and doesn’t pretend t…

Yes, he does a great job playing the curious and interested, but mostly uninformed everyman. This has the "explain it like I'm 5" effect on his guests, which forces them to be relatable instead of using jargon. It's a lot more valuable for most listeners than two people trying to one-up each other in how intellectual and sophisticated they can sound.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#364
post #353

I love the long form discussion. I feel I can actually here someones thoughts and perspectives rather than short meaningless soundbites. The lack of guests shouting over each other is great as well. He has also exposed me to some wonderful thinkers like Sean Carrol who I otherwise would not have come across.

to be honest, he's made me appreciate Ben Shapiro which didn't feel incredibly likely going in. Prior to that, my experience with Shapiro was the stupid videos people would share on Facebook of him "OWNING the libs." So I expected an absolutely terrible interview where I was going to be disgusted with the guy constantly. Granted, I don't agree with him on a lot, much at all really, but when he's just talking out his…

I agree, it's very interesting to listen to Shapiro reason his own beliefs as he talks.

It definitely helps me to see how other people might think about a topic which they may not be able to articulate well.

He certainly reaches some strange conclusions, but it is fascinating to see how someone gets to that point and try to better understand other viewpoints.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find it disturbing as Fox News and the other "conservative" media outlets were already full of ex-Bush era public sector employees. Both sides have an aggressively pro-intelligence agency bend, even if there are partisan differences.

There's a sizeable difference between judges and cabinet officials who have long been media pundits (though I do mostly agree that it's disturbing) and folks whose primary experience is in intelligence and counter-intelligence. The era of rampant, selective intelligence leaks to the media started when these very same people were in administration.

Intelligence was always this leaky, there just wasn't social media and modern-day yellow journalism to twist it and spread it around. And we didn't have outrage culture, which provides a very blunt and dangerous mechanism for leakers to leverage.

The only real secret intelligence is tactical (military or otherwise), because we aren't quite that craven, exceptions notwithstanding. Everything else is intrinsically political and has a very short half-life as a secret. Work for a few years inside the Beltway, especially with or near people who are connected (e.g. lobbyists, think tank scholars, appointees, Pentagon staffers, international orgs, etc), and this becomes obvious immediately. Secrets are social currency more important than money and maybe even title. Everybody shares secrets, albeit usually in an obnoxious, obfuscated, pretentious way; even the interns.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#366
Joe Rogan's booking and showrunning team(s) needs a lot more credit where it's due.

The politically and professionally diverse guests they are able to get, no doubt with the assistance of Joe himself, is absolutely incredible. You rarely see a show where you can have an extreme right wing radio host be a guest, only to have a slew of high profile left wing candidates on months later, with zero fucks given in making sure it's family-friendly.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it's useful to listen to those you have strong ethical disagreements with, in order to challenge your own ego and ideas.

Sorry, but I’ve lived enough of my adult life to know that I can tune out people who do mocking imitations of queer people on YouTube and be intellectually just fine.

Crowder was harangued by Maza for years, Crowder responding by doing a mocking impression of the self-referential non sequiturs that Maza would proclaim amidst his criticisms seems like fair game and not homophobic.

I don't see how it is any worse than when Crowder mocks Trump's braggadocios by imitating his common catchphrases. Such material is low comedy, for sure, but not cancel-worthy.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#368
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the JFK assassination marked the moment that the intelligence agencies officially gained supremacy over the government. That pt is long gone, our goal now should be to make their job of subverting our democracy as difficult as possible.

I don't think this passes even the sniff test. The shifting policies of the US seem to be driven by politicians, not some "intelligence agencies" boogeymen.

"No permanent allies; only permanent interests." A pithy summation of realpolitik.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. My comment was just that I found it to be low quality content. It was like something you might overhear from a table of not-so-bright senior citizens at a Denny’s.

And you're welcome to that opinion, just as he's welcome to his. That's kind of the point here. Opinions are valid, even if they're stupid.

(I don't want to wade in here really, but I have to take exception to your statement: Stupid opinions are not valid.)

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#370
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interviewing Nick Bostrom was cringe worthy. I don't know what Joe was trying to achieve - maybe forming an argument against the simulation theory? But it was so bad. Bostrom really failed there. He simply did not explain the argument very well. Everything Bostrom said is clear to someone who already understands the argument or has experience with statistics, but it was not at all a good explanation for someone who…

I had the opposite impression. Bostrom is just making up nonsense, then dressing it with fancy words and big numbers to prevent people from calling out his bullshit. It's the opposite of clear. If you look a little deeper he has nothing meaningful to offer in any field.

Actually, the simulation argument is solid. One of the three possibilities Bostrom outlines absolutely must be true.
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