We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes • Hacker News Board

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#461

Post by throw0101a » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:47 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #419

brnt wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Dutchman who's lived in a few places abroad, the cycling 'problem' is quite simple: it needs to be the norm. No helmet, because neither do you require them for pedestrians. You can cycle in all weather, just as you would walking (a hard mental one, my non-Dutch partner can't get over the idea cycling is for sunshine). Public space design must start with safe (no sharp turns, looking at you France!) and separate…

I live in a very mild clime, but still don't bike when it's rainy. What do you suggest gear-wise for bicycling in say 5-10C but wet? I have a 30 minute bicycle commute that I'd like to do more often. A typical waist-length jacket leaves most of my body wet, but a longer jacket is awkward to bike in. If it's over 10C, I can just wear shorts that don't absorb water, but under 10, it gets quite uncomfortable.

I find that it's not actual rain that's the problem, but the risk of rain. I hardly every get wet on my commute, but if it says 60-70% chance of precipitation, then that may prevent some people.

I find it handy to simply have a pannier with my rain gear:

* https://www.rei.com/c/cycling-jackets

* https://www.rei.com/c/cycling-tights-and-pants

It's not heavy, though a bit bulky, and if it does actually start coming down, one can just pull over and put it over one's regular clothes. If you can, try to ensure that whatever over-gear you get says "breathable": wearing the equivalent of a garbage bag reduces comfort.

I personally wear the funny-looking cycle attire as well, but that's because I like to pedal hard to get some cardio (instead of going to the gym). If you pedal at a slower pace then you may not work up a sweat--at least not after ~2 weeks once you're in better shape.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#462

Post by gbrown » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #450

gbrown wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No argument there, I just think it's also worthwhile from a quality of life + tourism $ perspective.

Ya, but it should be classed in that bucket rather than to alleviate other problems. E.g. there are some nice new recreational bike trails here in Washington and Idaho along old rail road routes. They won’t do much for rush hour traffic, but they are nice to have.

True, though I do think it's worth looking for connections between the two. A rail trail running through an area could form a good route for many different short commutes all along its length. If it's all rural, then sure - there's unlikely to be any overlap. If it connects populated areas, then subsections are likely to be multi-purpose.

That's the case for a lot of the trails in my state - there are big, rural, rail trail loops, but the suburban/urban connections to the routes are excellent commuting corridors.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#463

Post by magduf » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #295

systemtest wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a 750 year old European city. The medieval center is 1 kilometer in diameter. They wanted to make the center accessible only for cars of residents and suppliers of stores (up to 11am for suppliers). There are four underground parking garages directly surrounding the center and the walking distance from a garage to any location is never more than 450 meter. Free wheelchairs are provided from the garages. Thi…

> I wonder how people survived back in 1438 without the ability to park their car right in front of the shops. They parked their horse / carriage in front of the shops?

They didn't have carriages in 1438 except maybe for royals.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#464

Post by magduf » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #342

cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

Ugh. We get the same thing here in suburban DC (not the earthquakes but the outright hostility towards any changes in road infrastructure that don't involve adding lanes). The main street in front of my neighborhood was recently repaved end-to-end (3 miles or so). Prior to that, it was 2 lanes in each direction, with a few left turn lanes. As part of the repave, they wanted to add a semi-protected bike lane (by remov…

I live in suburban DC too; this place is terrible for cycling. I pretty much only ride on the trails (usually W&OD, also Custis and Mt. Vernon) because they're safe.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#465

Post by carapace » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

Make several separate but interconnected transportation networks.

Peds; Bikes; Light EVs (scooters, kick and seated, small cargo movers, narrow (1 seater) cars); Buses & Cargo Trucks; Trains;

Take advantage of grade (slope). Roads should have short ups followed by long downs (in both directions, it's possible) to let people take advantage of gravity. I once saw a fascinating pamphlet advocating for graded runways: planes taking off head downhill, landing, uphill. The idea was that you would save a ton of fuel.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#466

Post by magduf » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

petre wrote: post #150

cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

Of course no one wants to bike into the city when it's full of speeding cars. In France they've adopted a different attitude. Montpellier for instance has built many parking buildings at the city limits, an integrated urban transportation network while shrinking vehicle lanes and transforming them into dedicated tram lanes, bicycle lanes or pedestrian areas. They've also introduced obstacels and lots of wavy turns to…

>They've also introduced obstacels and lots of wavy turns to make speeding through the city very hard or impossible. If you want to go anywhere by car you're virtually stuck in a never ending traffic jam.

Now they just need to add a "congestion tax" like London has to penalize drivers for spewing fumes into the air in the city center.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#467

Post by dang » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #25

smt88 wrote: post #2

> Cars are the slowest, lowest-bandwidth forms of urban transportation. This is the kind of thing I read a lot in micromobility advocacy articles, but it seems like it can't be true. How can a bike, scooter, or moped be either faster or higher-bandwidth than a car? Also, serious question: if electric SDCs became widespread, would it still make sense to advocate things like bikes? You can't transport a family of three…

I’m faster than a car in downtown SF on my jump bike. Even on market I’m even because no one makes a green from one green.

I've noticed this too, and that's not counting the time it takes to park. Even some bike routes outside of downtown break even with cars.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#468

Post by magduf » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

anon9001 wrote: post #153

DoreenMichele wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most families in the developed world are having one to two kids. I rode a bike with a toddler in a toddler seat on the back until I was 8 months pregnant. You can also get little "cars" to tow behind your bike to hold two kids. I always hated cars. My kids never felt like a barrier to going far free. My marriage did. After the divorce, my kids and I eventually went car free. They are adults. They still live with me.…

> I rode a bike with a toddler in a toddler seat on the back until I was 8 months pregnant. You can also get little "cars" to tow behind your bike to hold two kids. As adults, I can understand the appeal of being car free, but I can't help but be struck by how dangerous it seems to commute on a bike pregnant with a toddler onboard. I'm imagining biking down Market St, 8 months pregnant, with a toddler seat and two ki…

>but I can't help but be struck by how dangerous it seems to commute on a bike pregnant with a toddler onboard.

People in Japan do it all the time.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#469

Post by magduf » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #250

socialist_coder wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have experience with Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, and Amsterdam; but if you sit outside of a daycare in those cities in the morning you can see the multitude of people who ride their bikes to drop off their 1, 2, and sometimes 3 kids at daycare. Those cities do cycling right and it shows. So I would disagree with you. The traffic problems are caused by having cities that are only setup to make cars convenient and…

Your last line is the issue that annoys people. It often lands like “rather than focusing on making other means more convenient , we’re going to focus on destroying the existing convenience to make alternatives more competitive.” A certain amount of that, as an unavoidable byproduct, is okay with most people. What’s not ok is the perceived (or real) gratuitous destruction of convenience.

You can't have it both ways. You can't have a car-friendly city that is also great for cycling and public transit.

Besides, gratuitous destruction of that "convenience" is good for society and the planet. The obesity rate in America should be proof enough that cars are bad for you.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#470

Post by Konnstann » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #454

Konnstann wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've biked for most of my life in the US, and while I agree cars are a bigger problem for cyclists than anything else, describing helmet use as "armor" against cars is ridiculous. I wear a helmet when on a bike because I've had my skull fractured falling off of a bike, with no cars in sight. A decent helmet costs what, $30?

An old rusty stations-fiets costs Eur 30, too. So then that helmet is looking a bit overpriced?

You can find a crap helmet for $0, doesn't mean getting a known good product isn't worth paying for.