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Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

abovethelaw.com

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#11
post #6

I used to think that blogging couldn't hurt your career. Then I read this post. From the sidebar: This post is authored by Evan Jowers and Robert Kinney of Kinney Recruiting, sponsor of the Asia Chronicles. Kinney has made more placements of U.S. associates and partners in Asia than any other firm in the past four years. Then we have the following professional-sounding quotes: I used to play Dungeons & Dragons in hig…

By that same logic, I should never do business with you because I find your opinion close-minded and should express that you shouldn't comment if you are not going to try to at least have a sense of humor.

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#12
Personally, I think the reasoning is completely bogus, however, I'm all for not allowing people to spend their day playing D&D while I and other tax payers pay for it (and I'll expand the D&D to anything that does not fall in the restitution or rehabilitation buckets).

On the other hand, I could see D&D being a good rehabilitation tool.

Personal rant aside, D&D sure seems like it would be a LOT better than some things I've read about in prison, but I also don't know the dynamics of prison life. Maybe the hierarchy of thugdom exhibits in potentially anything with a "leader" there.

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#13
post #2

The arguments the gang "expert" made about similarities between D&D player organization and gang organization would apply equally well to many organized religions, such as Catholicism. I wonder if a prison could get away with banning that?

The only part of the argument which got quoted in the article is that in D&D, some people give orders to other people, and in that way, it "mirrors the structure of a gang". Which is an argument that would encompass not just religion, but all sorts of other things. In a poetry group, one prisoner tells the others that today they'll be writing sonnets. A sure sign of gang activity!

In fairness, there may be more to the argument; all we have is a couple of paraphrased sentences from what was presumably a lot more testimony than that. But it doesn't help that those few sentences are inaccurate. The claim goes that "The Dungeon Master is tasked with giving directions to other players, which ... mimics the organization of a gang." That's not how I ever played D&D. The dungeon master doesn't give orders; he tells the players what happens when they do whatever they do of their own accord. One player character might give orders to another. But a DM that regularly tries to tell the PCs what to do, even through an NPC mouthpiece, is a pretty bad DM...

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#14
post #6

I used to think that blogging couldn't hurt your career. Then I read this post. From the sidebar: This post is authored by Evan Jowers and Robert Kinney of Kinney Recruiting, sponsor of the Asia Chronicles. Kinney has made more placements of U.S. associates and partners in Asia than any other firm in the past four years. Then we have the following professional-sounding quotes: I used to play Dungeons & Dragons in hig…

I'm pretty sure the article is by Elie Mystal, as it says at the top. The article in the sidebar is by Robert Kinney and Evan Jowers of Kinney Recruiting (the sidebar "article" more of a job list). Still, it's an easy enough distinction to miss that it could lead the guy to some trouble. Such is the price one pays for sponsoring content.

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#16
post #6

I used to think that blogging couldn't hurt your career. Then I read this post. From the sidebar: This post is authored by Evan Jowers and Robert Kinney of Kinney Recruiting, sponsor of the Asia Chronicles. Kinney has made more placements of U.S. associates and partners in Asia than any other firm in the past four years. Then we have the following professional-sounding quotes: I used to play Dungeons & Dragons in hig…

He made it pretty clear it was self-depreciative humour. If this blog post actually offended you, instead of merely making you think that others might be offended, then I suggest that you lighten up a bit.

I'm offended by such bad writing.

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#17
post #6

I used to think that blogging couldn't hurt your career. Then I read this post. From the sidebar: This post is authored by Evan Jowers and Robert Kinney of Kinney Recruiting, sponsor of the Asia Chronicles. Kinney has made more placements of U.S. associates and partners in Asia than any other firm in the past four years. Then we have the following professional-sounding quotes: I used to play Dungeons & Dragons in hig…

By that same logic, I should never do business with you because I find your opinion close-minded and should express that you shouldn't comment if you are not going to try to at least have a sense of humor.

Sounds good to me. A win for both of us.

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#18
The court applied the Turner test, which is very similar to the rational basis test: the plaintiff was burdened with showing that the threat of gang formation was "so remote as to render the policy arbitrary or irrational."

This may strike some as odd, given that 1st Amendment cases typically use strict scrutiny, not rational basis. But, here's the catch: it doesn't apply in prison! In prison, your 1st amendment rights are more limited, and something akin to the rational basis test does indeed apply. To quote the court:

"In Turner, the Supreme Court determined that prison regulations that restrict inmates' constitutional rights are nevertheless valid if they are reasonably related to legitimate penological interests."

So, despite the apparent silliness of banning D&D, it seems the prison was within its rights to do so. The prison system may, at its discretion, inflict all kinds of petty punishments upon prisoners. If you're sent to prison, your rights are sharply curtailed. That's what the court decided in Turner, so that's the way it is.

Whether or not this is good policy is, of course, open to debate. It depends on what balance you want to strike between the punitive/rehabilitative purposes of prison. I'm of the opinion that criminal justice ought to be primarily aimed at reducing recidivism, but then society at large doesn't really agree with me.

Here's the full decision:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1498113.html

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#19
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leads to the question: if Singer and his fellow players just got a little more "serious" about playing DnD, to the point where they could argue it constituted a religion, would they then be allowed to play?

Unlikely, courts tend to take a dim view on religions that aren't several hundreds if not thousands of years old. It is a legal hack to prevent situations like the one you described.

Doesn't Scientology have the status of an accepted religion in the US?

Re: Dungeons & Dragons ruled a threat to prison security

#20
What happened to the idea that D&D led to Satanism and suicide? This was a big deal back in the 1980s. You never hear about it anymore, and yet I haven't heard any of the old scaremongers actually admitting that they were wrong. Ditto for Satanic ritual abuse, which used to scare people out of their wits.
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