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U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#91

Post by buboard »

danShumway wrote: post #81
buboard wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, facebook and twitter already have apis for almost all their functions. What's the goal of this legislation?

Twitter's API is notoriously bad for 3rd party apps.[0] In order to use the standard API, you need to register for a developer account, which requires manual approval and which Twitter can deny for any reason.[1] Facebook has a history of outright suing 3rd party apps.[2] If I can log into Twitter, I should also be able to update my account with an HTTP request. That's it. I shouldn't need to sign an agreement, or te…

i wonder what caused them to limit their platforms so much.

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#92

Post by basch »

bilbo0s wrote: post #35
basch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interoperability and distributed federation would be much more powerful than export. Maybe they dont know facebook already has an export button? And if that export is in a non-standard-structured format, its not even useful to import into another network.

Interoperability just gives more people potential access to your data. What most activists are trying to do is move towards fewer people having access to your data, as well as you having full and legal custody of your data. Interoperability is better for companies, particularly small ones. But the idea here is to help people prevent companies from accessing their data willy nilly. I'd think the goal would be to decre…

Email being an open standard doesnt give more people access to my email. It gives more people the ability to communicate with me if I so choose.

Just because a social network were build on open standards doesnt automatically invalidate a persons/platforms ability to permission their data.

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#93

Post by diffeomorphism »

scarface74 wrote: post #78
romaaeterna wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To break the Facebook and Twitter monopolies.

So Twitter and Facebook have monopolies? Isn’t that kind of the opposite of a monopoly?

No, it is just that the word is used differently in common practice.

If "literally" can now include figuratively, then "monopoly" can include oligopoly.

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#94

Post by buboard »

bilbo0s wrote: post #76
buboard wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they severely limit bots and ask for phone numbers and then they 'll ban your number if you use it twice. Who's responsible for that other then the media FUD about russian bots? I really can't blame twitter (and FB) for limiting their platforms here.

Hmm. That's actually a good question. Does it outline in this legislation who is responsible if twitter throws open their api's and the company that a user delegated steals the user's data by acting, essentially, as a proxy api for other companies? I would think it's obvious that from the moment you delegate access to your data, Twitter would no longer be responsible. Basically, they should only be responsible for ma…

Thhis isnt even about theft, but that people give their permission willy nilly to bad actors. Thats not a solvable problem

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#96

Post by duxup »

buboard wrote: post #65
duxup wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least as far as Twitter goes don't they limit some of their APIs like how many users a given set of API keys can use or something like that?

Yeah they severely limit bots and ask for phone numbers and then they 'll ban your number if you use it twice. Who's responsible for that other then the media FUD about russian bots? I really can't blame twitter (and FB) for limiting their platforms here.

I think their API restrictions really started earlier as an effort to push users to their official app.

Granted your points are still very valid / a concern.

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#97

Post by Frondo »

ethbro wrote: post #39
bilbo0s wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interoperability just gives more people potential access to your data. What most activists are trying to do is move towards fewer people having access to your data, as well as you having full and legal custody of your data. Interoperability is better for companies, particularly small ones. But the idea here is to help people prevent companies from accessing their data willy nilly. I'd think the goal would be to decre…

The counterargument is that regulation around collecting and permitting access to data simply widens the moat for incumbents. Facebook and Google can implement a 500-page law. A startup cannot. So I think it's important to keep "How are we encouraging competition in the marketplace?" in mind as these proposals go through.

What that could lead to is a build-up of social network information brokering services, like how PCI compliance forced people to stop storing CC numbers on their own.

I'm okay with that. I worked on so many small e-commerce sites early in my career that just had a "CC" column in their user database, and it was all so sloppy and horrible. None of these would have been a big enough target for serious hacking, but also the security was never so good that an amateur couldn't walk off with 1,000 cards.

Now, payments are all handled by people who treat that data much more seriously. I certainly trust Stripe or Shopify over random web dev X.

If personal data starts being treated with that kind of care -- and the interoperability and exporting is also important -- I think that's only a good thing, even if it means that Google and facebook get a head start on that.

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#98

Post by egypturnash »

buboard wrote: post #91
danShumway wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter's API is notoriously bad for 3rd party apps.[0] In order to use the standard API, you need to register for a developer account, which requires manual approval and which Twitter can deny for any reason.[1] Facebook has a history of outright suing 3rd party apps.[2] If I can log into Twitter, I should also be able to update my account with an HTTP request. That's it. I shouldn't need to sign an agreement, or te…

i wonder what caused them to limit their platforms so much.

wanting to own all ads placed against user content

wanting to lock users in and make it harder to leave for another service and still maintain a presence (which is also a constant ad for that other service) by cross-posting

wanting to make it harder to see the stuff you're following people for without ads inserted every few posts

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#99

Post by jagged-chisel »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82
jagged-chisel wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question (I'm not making the connection on my own, so please help me out): how does giving me the ability to instruct a social network to delete my information (and a law to enforce that instruction) infringe on the network's first amendment rights?

> how does giving me the ability to instruct a social network to delete my information (and a law to enforce that instruction) infringe on the network's first amendment rights? There is a difference between the right to deletion and the right to be forgotten. Right to deletion is "I gave you these data, these data are mine, please delete them." Right to be forgotten means "you have these data, they concern me, please…

Apologies for the conflation of 'deletion instruction' and 'right to be forgotten' - thanks for pointing that out.

I'm under the impression, in the USA, that I wrote the tweet, therefore I'm the copyright holder, and I've only licensed it to Twitter. Further, I'm under the impression that the smart publisher is going to reach out to me to republish my tweet (under license.) If I'm mistaken, please correct me.

Given that I created the content and I hold the copyright, I can revoke the license I gave to Twitter. However, Twitter's TOS probably requires a 'non-revocable license' and a law requiring services to offer deletion would presumably remove the ability of these companies to insist on a non-revocable license.

Personally, I'd be on the side of 'allow deletion' rather than 'right to be forgotten' but I also feel like cementing the concepts of content ownership ("no, $service, you don't own user-generated content") and licensing ("no $service, you cannot insist on a non-revocable license") would go a long want to enabling either deletion, or rights to be forgotten.

Re: U.S. senators want social media users to be able to take their data with them

#100

Post by buboard »

duxup wrote: post #96
buboard wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they severely limit bots and ask for phone numbers and then they 'll ban your number if you use it twice. Who's responsible for that other then the media FUD about russian bots? I really can't blame twitter (and FB) for limiting their platforms here.

I think their API restrictions really started earlier as an effort to push users to their official app. Granted your points are still very valid / a concern.

Maybe but i noticed them becoming really unworkable since 2016.
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