Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience • Hacker News Board

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#81

Post by nomusuari » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 9:14 AM UTC

Oletros wrote: post #77

nomusuari wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was mostly payed by the catalan population and this is the reason why the Spanish "judges" have to lie so much to jail Catalan politicians for misuse of public funds. Anyway the point is we won by 90% and if we did another legal referendum we would win again and that is why the spaniards will never allow a legal referendum.

If you want to believe that you won anything, well, there is also people that believe Earth is flat

If you bothered to look at the facts you would see that more people voted in Catalonia's referendum of independence that for a general election. In Catalonia, we are all willing to do another referendum, a legal one, but we all know that Spain will never allow it because the Yes would win again. Catalonia is forced to be under spanish rule and they will do anything to keep it this way: jailing catalan politicians, beating protesters, making up stories a la Goebbels, torturing people or killing activists.

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#82

Post by squiggleblaz » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 11:36 AM UTC

kylecazar wrote: post #23

t-away-123568 wrote: post #11

I have trouble with first world separatist/independence movements (Quebec, Scotland, Basque, Catalan, etc) where it seems there is little real present day issue other than what seems from the outside to be historical grievance and ego.

I've struggled to sympathize at times, on a case by case basis. Interesting that the existence of these movements seems strongly tied to the historical granting of autonomy to the regions involved. I.e, if some degree of autonomy was once granted (take the Basques), I imagine it solidified and now serves to justify the sense of uniqueness. Whereas if it isn't tolerated (i.e, the U.S), separatist movements are nonexis…

Well each US state is more-or-less autonomous compared to the Spanish regions. I guess in America states don't, by and large, correspond to the cultural regions that could become independent.

Also, the movements demanding autonomy predate the autonomy in almost every case (where they subsequently demand independence).

Other times, perhaps the reason for the autonomy demand is not national difference like in the Spanish cases, but simply distance - therefore, it doesn't become a movement for independence. Not only is the autonomy sufficient, but perhaps a backstep is taken: For instance, in mid-19th century Australia the Port Phillip District of NSW demanded autonomy and received a parliament that could do almost anything domestically. Fifty years later, they began reuniting in a federation and there's been not even a hint of independence from Victoria since.

Ultimately I think the reason for separation demands in Europe is because Europe is now the federation level of government, and the regions (Flemish, Catalans, Scots) want a seat at the table. So they're not really demanding independence but separation. This is a normal consequence of forming a federation.

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#83

Post by squiggleblaz » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 11:58 AM UTC

slapshot wrote: post #7

stretchwithme wrote: post #4

There won't be peace on Earth until people give up on the idea that they have the right to coerce other people into political relationships.

We (USA) fought a war over that. The "if we agreed to stay together then we have to stay together" side won.

The domestic political processes of the United States, even when they amount to a civil war, are not binding on other states, however similar or dissimilar they be. I can imagine California would be prevented if they asked for independence today, but Scotland looked pretty much free to go if they'd wanted it recently.