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A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

law.yale.edu

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Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#31

Post by EliRivers »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #3

Are my biases deceiving me, or has the Overton window on criticizing “meritocracy” shifted? A few years ago (including in 2015 when I missed this speech) I believe it would have been unthinkable in my social circles. I’ve become convinced that meritocracy as the Yale Law elites would know it has utterly failed 99% of Americans.

Apropos of the theme, when "meritocracy" was coined it was a warning; something damaging to society that was to be avoided. At some point, the term was hijacked and pushed as a force for good (I suspect, but cannot prove, mostly by those who were benefitting from it) and now we seem to be coming back around the circle.

Meritocracies are insidious. We can see it in some societies; "this is a meritocracy" therefore rich powerful people deserve their wealth and power and the poor and powerless have only themselves to blame and deserve no help. A positive feedback cycle through the generations that leads to a stratified society of nobility and peasantry.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#33

Post by WalterBright »

jchallis wrote: post #12
nytesky wrote: post #6

My school and work experience span working class coal power plant techs (a friend used to climb through exhaust channels) to Ivy League educated lawyers and founders. Most people’s career trajectory will be set by the time they are in high school, so the importance of secondary school education and resources of your parents is paramount. Also, wealth from family of origin allows risk taking, funding for law or medica…

What is the risk associated with a medical degree? It seemed to be the default path for risk averse middle class kids with science talent.

During my time at Caltech, there were the premeds. They worked very, very hard, because they needed the grades to get into med school. They weren't a real happy group of students, not many envied them. I feel any money they made after all that they earned.

Many of the engineers went on to become quite wealthy from their startups.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#34

Post by hnhg »

cm2187 wrote: post #25
nytesky wrote: post #6

My school and work experience span working class coal power plant techs (a friend used to climb through exhaust channels) to Ivy League educated lawyers and founders. Most people’s career trajectory will be set by the time they are in high school, so the importance of secondary school education and resources of your parents is paramount. Also, wealth from family of origin allows risk taking, funding for law or medica…

I agree but I am not convinced wealth plays a big role. In France, higher education is pretty much free, and you see probably an even larger lack of social diversity than the US in the most ellitist programs (medecine, engineering, business). In the US there are always ways to finance education if you are a good student. I think family culture, peer pressure and the school pushing you to go the hard path is by far th…

In France there might be another dominant selection process other than cost (e.g. attending the 'right' schools, which again might be a matter of what connections you've had, or if you can afford to live in the catchment area).

For example, I've known people who have been hired at very prestigious law firms, and told outright that they were pleased to see they attended a "very good" (i.e. elite) high school.

Meanwhile, in the USA a friend has to deal with $300k+ costs of pursuing Medicine while living in the Bay area. They are from a wealthy family though.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#35

Post by torben-friis »

cm2187 wrote: post #25
nytesky wrote: post #6

My school and work experience span working class coal power plant techs (a friend used to climb through exhaust channels) to Ivy League educated lawyers and founders. Most people’s career trajectory will be set by the time they are in high school, so the importance of secondary school education and resources of your parents is paramount. Also, wealth from family of origin allows risk taking, funding for law or medica…

I agree but I am not convinced wealth plays a big role. In France, higher education is pretty much free, and you see probably an even larger lack of social diversity than the US in the most ellitist programs (medecine, engineering, business). In the US there are always ways to finance education if you are a good student. I think family culture, peer pressure and the school pushing you to go the hard path is by far th…

As a European from a poor-ish lower middle class background, I can tell you that even free university doesn't cut it economically.

The thing is, every year you stay at school is a year that you're a financial drain to your family and a year that you're not being an active money earner. For many, it's simply not affordable to be in their formative years until they are 22 (likely even longer if studies take more than 4 years, they in practice need a masters/phd in their field to succeed, or if they fail and have to retake some subjects).

At least in my country, the system is simply not made in a way that can support a person studying and working at the same time, for a variety of reasons (lack of part time, weekend or flexible jobs, amount of work that one has to do at home, uni schedules that don't account for job-study balance, etc).

On top of that, there's the apparently less important, but in practice enormous psychological pressure of not having an actual adult paycheck until well in your adult years.

A life where your friends that went through a fastest route to the job market are living with their SO, spending money in life experiences and traveling while you're 24 and still have to ask your parents for money to have a beer, eat at mcdonalds or go to the movies (knowing they can't afford much on top of that), or where you can't take a girl to your house because you still live with your parents... it's basically assuming that you'll have to live like a teenager until you're almost 30.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#36

Post by StanislavPetrov »

natalyarostova wrote: post #14
astrofinch wrote: post #9

Graduating from Yale Law sounds like it's for suckers. Let the elites have their crazy working hours and stressful hoop jumping--I'm not envious.

Their cohort effectively sets the vision for American legislation and justice. You may not be interested in them, but they're interested in you.

Setting the vision for American legislation and so-called "justice" is hardly something to be envious of, or to be proud of if you know anything about legislation or the "justice" system.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#37

Post by username90 »

torben-friis wrote: post #35
cm2187 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but I am not convinced wealth plays a big role. In France, higher education is pretty much free, and you see probably an even larger lack of social diversity than the US in the most ellitist programs (medecine, engineering, business). In the US there are always ways to finance education if you are a good student. I think family culture, peer pressure and the school pushing you to go the hard path is by far th…

As a European from a poor-ish lower middle class background, I can tell you that even free university doesn't cut it economically. The thing is, every year you stay at school is a year that you're a financial drain to your family and a year that you're not being an active money earner. For many, it's simply not affordable to be in their formative years until they are 22 (likely even longer if studies take more than 4…

In Sweden every student gets stipends and guaranteed loans so you don't have to work. Universities are still very segregated.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#39

Post by knolax »

There was a dead comment in this thread that I can't respond to now. It came from legitimate grievances but embodied what I think is a dangerous and now popular sentiment.

It seemed to have been mocking the language of the speech when there really isn't anything objectively wrong with the speech. The speech was in a high register but I thought it was very concise. The parody in the comment on the other hand seems to try to immitate religious language, and didn't attack the speech but the speakers and their values. It's as if the commenter perceives the academic register used in the speech as marking its contents unworthy of engaging with, the ivory tower ramblings of the elites as nonsensical and contemptible as religious rhetoric. This sort of contempt for everything associated with the upper class leads to the kind of cultural destruction we saw in Communist revolutions.

Hate the elite all you want but the culture they embody is also your culture; don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Re: A New Aristocracy: Yale Law School Commencement Address (2015) [pdf]

#40

Post by arethuza »

hnhg wrote: post #34
cm2187 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but I am not convinced wealth plays a big role. In France, higher education is pretty much free, and you see probably an even larger lack of social diversity than the US in the most ellitist programs (medecine, engineering, business). In the US there are always ways to finance education if you are a good student. I think family culture, peer pressure and the school pushing you to go the hard path is by far th…

In France there might be another dominant selection process other than cost (e.g. attending the 'right' schools, which again might be a matter of what connections you've had, or if you can afford to live in the catchment area). For example, I've known people who have been hired at very prestigious law firms, and told outright that they were pleased to see they attended a "very good" (i.e. elite) high school. Meanwhil…

Attending the "right" school is a huge factor here in the UK - at least in some areas (law and politics being the most obvious examples).
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