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We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

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Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#41

Post by lotsofpulp »

taurath wrote: post #26
epse wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying for updates has been the standard software model for ages, and with good reason. It still takes money to update and add new features. It still takes time. To some extent new users can pay for this, but then developers have to severely limit the time spent on updates in order to nod spend too much, or they risk not even making a profit on the first version. That is why most "big" software packages these days ar…

And Apple taking 30% of that... for what? Payment processing is a 4% thing. It’s in the app developers interest to make it not have errors. It’s just for access to the market. That is the only value Apple truly brings, outside of the brand and a privacy commitment

Considering no one else seems to be able to sell access to a similar market, it seems to be a valuable thing to sell.

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#42

Post by jen729w »

dijit wrote: post #7

Actually; now that I think about it, from a user perspective I also really dislike the App Store. I used to _love_ it, I would check weekly for new things, maybe there was some new shiny (often beautiful) program to do something really well. The experience was on the 'better than passable' side, nobodies favourite interface maybe, but certainly not terrible. But I actually avoid the App Store these days, both on MacO…

I’ve also stopped “check[ing] weekly for new things”, but that’s because I don’t need any new things! Do you?

I don’t have Instagram but I imagine it’s a bit like the App Store. I’m waiting somewhere. I’m bored. I know, I’ll check for a shiny thing. Oh, no shiny thing. That was disappointing.

To compare, do you go to the internet regularly and check for new things? I don’t think this is the App Store’s fault. It’s not on Apple to constantly put new shiny useful software in the App Store — it’s on developers. And I’m not blaming developers. Making new shiny software is hard. There’s already a whole bunch of software. If you have a problem, chances are it’s already been addressed.

Constantly shiny + new ~== a good App Store.

(~== Not necessarily equal to. Did I just invent that?)

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#43

Post by fouc »

askafriend wrote: post #21

I'm sorry but as a user, I trust my relationship with Apple more than I trust random third party devs. As a user, I want Apple to lock down the system and make things hard for developers. As a developer, I empathize with my perspective as a user and build products that take this into account.

I want things sandboxed for sure but I definitely don't want to be forced to use App Store. In reality App Stores are bad, too much enforced centralization. Takes the power out of the user's hands.

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#44

Post by pjmlp »

telaelit wrote: post #37
pjmlp wrote: post #35

> Apple takes 30% and that is not sustainable to run a company and pay salleries Yet plenty of other companies do business on this model. And where are they going to go? GNU/Linux? Good luck making a sustainable business selling desktop software there.

Leaving the AppStore doesn’t mean they can’t create MacOS applications. Most MacOS applications aren’t even installed via the AppStore.

If they want to sell them on Catalina and newer devices they surely need to follow similar steps anyway, while paying for infrastructure themselves.

https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=09032019a

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#45

Post by croh »

askafriend wrote: post #21

I'm sorry but as a user, I trust my relationship with Apple more than I trust random third party devs. As a user, I want Apple to lock down the system and make things hard for developers. As a developer, I empathize with my perspective as a user and build products that take this into account.

As I understand AppStore is mutual platform. It should be beneficial to both user and devs.

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#46

Post by dijit »

jen729w wrote: post #42
dijit wrote: post #7

Actually; now that I think about it, from a user perspective I also really dislike the App Store. I used to _love_ it, I would check weekly for new things, maybe there was some new shiny (often beautiful) program to do something really well. The experience was on the 'better than passable' side, nobodies favourite interface maybe, but certainly not terrible. But I actually avoid the App Store these days, both on MacO…

I’ve also stopped “check[ing] weekly for new things”, but that’s because I don’t need any new things! Do you? I don’t have Instagram but I imagine it’s a bit like the App Store. I’m waiting somewhere. I’m bored. I know, I’ll check for a shiny thing. Oh, no shiny thing. That was disappointing. To compare, do you go to the internet regularly and check for new things? I don’t think this is the App Store’s fault. It’s no…

I mean "need" is subjective, I was trying to insinuate that I didn't know I 'needed' what was on offer until it was displayed in front of me.

For (a good) instance of what I mean was Airmail. Standard mail on OSX was "good enough" but Airmail was just all around better (from a UX perspective) and the popularity of it made Apple turn their head.

Another was 1password; before 1password I was using the macOS keychain, but 1password is/was all around better.

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#47

Post by someonehere »

tzury wrote: post #17

If you run your company smart, then publish your software in both places, your own website and AppStore. Users who trust direct relationship with you, will download directly, enjoy better prices (30% commission omitted) and rapid updates. At the same time you will not lose a whole marketshare of users for which AppStore is the "go-to" address for buying software. You can then skill up your SEO capabilities and optimi…

Some apps can’t do parallel features because of rules on the App Store. I remember several years ago a commercial AV software sold an App Store version that was nerfed for true AV scanning which it’s non App Store has the full feature set. Apple requires (or maybe they don’t have that limitation anymore) that an application not touch system services if it’s sold in the App Store. Which for AV that would fit the bill.

Personally for a while the macOS App Store was riddled with sketchy Chinese apps that looked like knock offs of the real apps. Or there are apps that do the same thing as a more expensive commercial one.

Personally I’ve found a few gems in both App Stores. Hands down I love Pixelmator on iOS and macOS. I’d gladly pay for more apps built with good quality.

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#49

Post by dijit »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #36
dijit wrote: post #7

Actually; now that I think about it, from a user perspective I also really dislike the App Store. I used to _love_ it, I would check weekly for new things, maybe there was some new shiny (often beautiful) program to do something really well. The experience was on the 'better than passable' side, nobodies favourite interface maybe, but certainly not terrible. But I actually avoid the App Store these days, both on MacO…

Nature has dark patterns if 2% chance of popularity is the threshold to qualify. Many other markets I see converge on a few huge players too, retail, food, hotels, software, banks, etc.

Instead of getting hung up on the exact percentage; perhaps I meant more like 0.000002%?

MacOS/iOS application stores are likely in the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of applications, however I see the same 20 when I browse without using the search field.

Re: We are leaving the Apple App Store and all its problems

#50

Post by dijit »

taurath wrote: post #26
epse wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying for updates has been the standard software model for ages, and with good reason. It still takes money to update and add new features. It still takes time. To some extent new users can pay for this, but then developers have to severely limit the time spent on updates in order to nod spend too much, or they risk not even making a profit on the first version. That is why most "big" software packages these days ar…

And Apple taking 30% of that... for what? Payment processing is a 4% thing. It’s in the app developers interest to make it not have errors. It’s just for access to the market. That is the only value Apple truly brings, outside of the brand and a privacy commitment

People get hung up on apple having a 30% entrance fee, but that didn't come out of nowhere.

I work in the video games industry and access to steam or other first parties (Sony/Microsoft) is 30%, no negotiations.

You could argue that first parties such as sony/microsoft have subtle costs involved such as printing of disks, but that's paid for before market by the publisher.

The thing you pay for is: content distribution (in the case of digital downloads such as steam), 'signing' and access to market.

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