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'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

theinquirer.net

21–30 of 36 posts

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#21
I've found this to be true in a bad way. One female co-worker writes comments like this:

//Get the HttpSession from request.

HttpSession session = request.getSession();

To anyone who knows Java, that comment is just a waste of space that gets in the way.

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#23
"forcing men to write more detailed accounts of their coding issues, and expressing their programming problems before each new block of code is written. Lovingly written."

Hmm.. I know I wouldn't last there long. My first reaction would be to explain my problems like this:

It was a dark and stormy node; the files served from torrents -- except for occasional intervals when checked by a violent gust of spam which swept up the subnet (for it is in the colo that our scene lies), rattling along the interfaces, and fiercely invalidating the scanty lines of the caches that struggled against the load.

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#24
Something I have learnt the hard way: Comments are bad for you.

I used to be a big proponent of comments too, until I realized that having the right variable and function names makes for much better documentation. Any time a chunk of code gets complicated enough for you to feel you need to comment it, you should just abstract it into another function. If you look at arc.arc it is very much written in this fashion.

The problem with comments is that they are not tightly coupled to the implementing code .. if someone comments something and then someone else comes along and changes the code without changing the comment, and then someone else comes along and tries to figure out the code by reading the comment ...

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#25
post #17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a parody. If you follow the link to the original article, you can see that she is just claiming that women are better at documenting code, which is a reasonable hypothesis. The Inquirer on their own account added the slant about womens code being more "sensitive" and so on, probably to make here look like an idiot. (Also fun to see how "user-friendly and gender-neutral" coding standards in WSJ becomes "woma…

In any case, I absolutely loathe the kind of coding standards she is trying to enforce. It sounds like micromanagement bullshit, forcing developers to do stuff they resent. The extreme endresult are those comments on getters and setters in Java: / * gets the variable */ int getVariable() {...} I could scream and climb up walls when I see that or worse, have to write that. If you don't write the comment, though, some…

I think the comments here do a better job of reflecting the problems women are up against as coders, than they do of reflecting the constraints this particular woman has imposed upon her team.

Despite the fact that absolutely no details were provided in the article about her standards, or what she's trying to achieve (other than a few "pithy" interpretations by the author), you've jumped to the conclusion that it's "micromanagement bullshit". You've also taken the most absurd interpretation of her remarks. Why? I'm quite confident that any experienced developer knows the difference between your example, and good documentation practices. Since this particular woman has managed to rise to a position of high authority, perhaps we should give her the benefit of the doubt, hmm?

Anyway...if they weren't so sad, the anguished geek cries of "sexism" in this thread would be hilarious. It's hard to be oppressed by discrimination when you're in the clear and obvious majority.

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#26

What a load of sexist bullshit. I've worked with several women coders. Some were better than others. It's only possible to make this kind of ridiculous blanket statement because so few women coders exist in the first place. Small sample size, nada mas. (Yes, I accused a woman of being sexist. If that doesn't make sense to you please Google sexism instead of bothering me.)

Two words: crocodile tears.

I'd think I'd trade 80% of the sexist men in this industry for a few more sexist women.

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#27
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, I absolutely loathe the kind of coding standards she is trying to enforce. It sounds like micromanagement bullshit, forcing developers to do stuff they resent. The extreme endresult are those comments on getters and setters in Java: / * gets the variable */ int getVariable() {...} I could scream and climb up walls when I see that or worse, have to write that. If you don't write the comment, though, some…

I think the comments here do a better job of reflecting the problems women are up against as coders, than they do of reflecting the constraints this particular woman has imposed upon her team. Despite the fact that absolutely no details were provided in the article about her standards, or what she's trying to achieve (other than a few "pithy" interpretations by the author), you've jumped to the conclusion that it's "…

What makes you think my comment would have been different if she had not been a woman, but a man? I have experienced enforced comments, and that was in all men environments. I have complained about it against men, too.

I feel confident enough from my experience to say that her commenting rules are bullshit. I gave the reasons, too: comments are bad because they go stale. Enforced comments lead to ridiculous comments and tedious typing work that is resented by developers. If she really has found a way around that, it would be sensational, I would love to read an article about it. If she has several mandatory comment fields in the code, it is essentially just a TPS report translated to coding. Before you can write any code, you have to fill in a form - that can't be fun, not matter if the boss is male or female.

Maybe she is still a super-coder, it is not as if she is the only one coming up with awful rules in face of the unsolved problem of managing IT projects. Most managers probably resort to such means eventually (that's why the TPS report joke exists), and then forget to switch back when it doesn't work out. That is why big companies become horrible work places in the long run. Now she works for a big company, so maybe she does a good job for that environment - I don't mean that as demeaning, I guess somebody had to do the corporate stuff (I actually envy corporate folks for their endurance and staying power). I merely pointed out that I loathe that kind of thing. If you like it, more power to you.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this really has nothing to do with sexism. On the other hand, you display exactly the kind of "political correctness" that makes people resent issues like sexism, because it is just used as a manipulative tool (you can always brush off criticism by crying "sexism").

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#28
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, I absolutely loathe the kind of coding standards she is trying to enforce. It sounds like micromanagement bullshit, forcing developers to do stuff they resent. The extreme endresult are those comments on getters and setters in Java: / * gets the variable */ int getVariable() {...} I could scream and climb up walls when I see that or worse, have to write that. If you don't write the comment, though, some…

I think the comments here do a better job of reflecting the problems women are up against as coders, than they do of reflecting the constraints this particular woman has imposed upon her team. Despite the fact that absolutely no details were provided in the article about her standards, or what she's trying to achieve (other than a few "pithy" interpretations by the author), you've jumped to the conclusion that it's "…

"You've also taken the most absurd interpretation of her remarks"

Where do you read that? I have not referred to her remarks in any way, I only referred to the practice of enforced comments in general. I don't even know if she's a Java Developer.

I see this kind of commenting every day, from experienced developers, too. There are now tools that run automatically (like during the nightly build) and rise red flags if a Java method doesn't have comments, so people write those stupid comments to shut up the tool. I have also seen the "get the value" comments in enterprise level open source projects. It is the way developers kill time these days.

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#29
post #28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comments here do a better job of reflecting the problems women are up against as coders, than they do of reflecting the constraints this particular woman has imposed upon her team. Despite the fact that absolutely no details were provided in the article about her standards, or what she's trying to achieve (other than a few "pithy" interpretations by the author), you've jumped to the conclusion that it's "…

"You've also taken the most absurd interpretation of her remarks" Where do you read that? I have not referred to her remarks in any way, I only referred to the practice of enforced comments in general. I don't even know if she's a Java Developer. I see this kind of commenting every day, from experienced developers, too. There are now tools that run automatically (like during the nightly build) and rise red flags if a…

"I absolutely loathe the kind of coding standards she is trying to enforce. It sounds like micromanagement bullshit, forcing developers to do stuff they resent."

Unless you work for her, or know her personally, you have no idea what kind of coding standards she's trying to enforce. You've referenced her management and called it bullshit, because you've assumed that she's doing absurd things that you've experienced on bad projects in the past.

Re: 'Women write more expressive, sensitive code'

#30
post #29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You've also taken the most absurd interpretation of her remarks" Where do you read that? I have not referred to her remarks in any way, I only referred to the practice of enforced comments in general. I don't even know if she's a Java Developer. I see this kind of commenting every day, from experienced developers, too. There are now tools that run automatically (like during the nightly build) and rise red flags if a…

"I absolutely loathe the kind of coding standards she is trying to enforce. It sounds like micromanagement bullshit, forcing developers to do stuff they resent." Unless you work for her, or know her personally, you have no idea what kind of coding standards she's trying to enforce. You've referenced her management and called it bullshit, because you've assumed that she's doing absurd things that you've experienced on…

Quote from the WSJ article (italics by me): "In an effort to make Ingres’s computer code more user-friendly and gender-neutral, McGrattan helped institute new coding standards at the company. They require programmers to include a detailed set of comments before each block of code explaining what the piece of code does and why; developers also must supply a detailed history of any changes they have made to the code"

That is more than enough to make a judgment in that case.

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