Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession • Hacker News Board

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#271

Post by braindouche » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 9:09 PM UTC

Will_Parker wrote: post #243

danharaj wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a great many things you can't debate about people. For example, you would be severely censured if you debated whether your colleague's chronic illness really was as bad as they claim it is. If the position is "I should be able to question and debate anything about my colleagues" then the position is obviously absurd and I would ask a person holding such a view to reevaluate what they think society is. I don…

> So, why are you troubled that you can't debate this particular thing, when I'm sure there are things you shouldn't debate about your colleagues? I'm troubled by the top-down nature of what is decided to be beyond debate vs not: it feels like it is leading to a scary kind of authoritarianism I don't want. For fun, I'll throw you a specific plausible hypothetical. If an app has a gender identity field, and a user ent…

Of course it's valid. Look for patterns. If 100 Apache Helicopters sign up for your app, congratulations, you just uncovered a new and very specific marketing segment to target.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#272

Post by Ambele » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 9:14 PM UTC

departure wrote: post #230

ptah wrote: post #166

>On the other hand, 41 percent of those over 65 supported Biden, compared to 26 percent for Warren and an incredible 2 percent for Sanders. it seems that the ones that grew up in a time when tax policy was closer to bernie sanders' are less likely to support him

That does not surprise me. That generation benefited from those tax rates by living some of the best recorded lives in history and don't want to do anything that could change their own status quo now that they are rich and powerfull.

I agree. Retirees and the elderly vote much more than the youth. Unless that changes, policy will continue to be more favorable towards retirees and the elderly.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#273

Post by root_axis » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 9:28 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #267

root_axis wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "private ownership by everyone", it's "stock ownership by some individuals employed by the company". Not even remotely close to the same thing.

How is it not, if everyone receives ownership of the company that they work for? Does that not, on the level of the society as a whole, add up to "bestowing collective ownership of private capital"?

You are misinformed about Bernie's proposal. The proposal is not "everyone receives ownership of the company they work for" or anything even remotely similar to that. The proposal is that publicly traded companies that bring in more than $100m in annual revenue must remit 2% of their stock to employees per year until employees retain a 20% share of stock ownership. "Everyone receives ownership of the company that they work for" is an absurd and false characterization.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#274

Post by gnusty_gnurc » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

NTDF9 wrote: post #182

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The proponents of current form of capitalism miss a big big aspect of free-market capitalism. That is: taking losses. It might be clearer if you just called "the current form of capitalism" crony capitalism. It's not free market and that's why I laugh whenever people say that capitalism is failing. Progressives won a long time ago (during the Progressive era) and crafted a massive government, instituted heavy centr…

Are you really kidding me? I'm not sure if you are looking at things objectively when you blame progressives (for something they didn't even do) while the current administration is enriching the oligarchs

Enriching the oligarchs? Compared to under Bush and Obama when their administrations espoused the notion that "everyone dies if we don't inject massive amounts of money into irresponsible corporations." Everyone enriches oligarchs. Blaming it on one administration or the other misses the larger point that strong central planning is the defining feature of anything done by federal govt nowadays (something that, like I said, we got from the early 20th c).

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#275

Post by SolaceQuantum » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 11:52 PM UTC

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #260

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your thrust but one caveat: "despite cars horses are still around" This is an absolutely terrible argument, because the population and societal use of horses have been greatly reduced once the automobile came into play. If we were to transfer this with people, this means that once automation comes into the play, the vast majority of working humans will be culled and those remaining are only luxury/recrea…

Ok, fair enough, but read the larger context though. The people who had equestrian professions didn’t die. And there weren’t a mass of people displaced as refugees as the car became popular. It just created different jobs. Things that weren’t possible or didn’t exist before cars. It’s the same thing with “automation”. People like to pretend that one day soon everything will just be straight up replaced with robots ov…

Actually from what I understand automation did displace certain specialty professions, such as weavers, and those people displaced generally had to take Shittier jobs or start from square one again in a new profession. That is to say, assuming there will not be upheaval as certain careers are completely ravaged is ahistorical.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#276

Post by NTDF9 » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 12:01 AM UTC

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #274

NTDF9 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really kidding me? I'm not sure if you are looking at things objectively when you blame progressives (for something they didn't even do) while the current administration is enriching the oligarchs

Enriching the oligarchs? Compared to under Bush and Obama when their administrations espoused the notion that "everyone dies if we don't inject massive amounts of money into irresponsible corporations." Everyone enriches oligarchs. Blaming it on one administration or the other misses the larger point that strong central planning is the defining feature of anything done by federal govt nowadays (something that, like I…

Every administration has a problem. You are the one who brought some "progressive" nonsense in the first place, when you yourself know that it's not a political party issue. It's a problem with our politics which is sold out to the highest bidder.

Oligarchs in our system are people funding lobbyists. How else do you think Oligarchs work?

Let's be rational and remove the blame game. Focus on the problem and we know none of the political leaders are doing anything to fix it.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#277

Post by ClumsyPilot » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 12:02 AM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #51

jtcruthers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lets bring in loads of uneducated, poor immigrants instead of addressing the issues causing fertility rates below the replacement level. Why let our children have families when we can import them for cheaper?

Because educating immigrants is cheaper? If you support immigrants, surprisingly, they tend to embrace the existentially important parts of your culture and integrate smoothly. But my guess is that you take issue more with their skin color.

Western countries are importing immigrants that someone else has already paid to educate. If an engineer moves to US from India, Indian government and the Immigrant / their family have already invested in that person's education. Arguably US is 'Stealing' the best people from elsewhere, and gaining unfair advantage.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#278

Post by manicdee » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 12:06 AM UTC

Will_Parker wrote: post #249

tremon wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. We only need one set of gendered pronouns. Using words from one set for some people, while using words from a different set for other people, is subject to arbitrary interpretation and therefore vulnerable to othering.

> We only need one set of gendered pronouns Which set do you think would suffice?

Spivak

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#279

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 12:31 AM UTC

jddj wrote: post #251

pvaldes wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protests will not work, only young people deciding massively to vote a third party would make a dent on the current fossilised power inbalance. No matter how many times you ask for gun control or a fair healthcare system. It will not happen. The alternative is what we are seeing in Europe, with students 15 yo playing real world Resident Evil in Barcelona with chainsaws and torches (and finding it more funny and rewar…

Just on the chainsaw point, take care: unless it somehow happened in the only corner of the city with police and protestors but without 100 smartphone cameras pointed at them at all times, it's utter bullshit. These police have been totally disproportionate in their use of force and hence have a huge incentive to sensationalise the actions of those 15 year olds.

I find chainsaws perfectly plausible in this context

You forgot that there is a policeman in critic state at the hospital after being hit with a rock in the head by this merry people (while bearing a security helmet that was perforated by the force of the impact).

And also that a police helicopter was videotaped being attacked with fireworks and the responsible faces now charges of attempt of homicide by trying to take down the helicopter

And that thousands of policemen were injured with broken hands and arms, and had being attacked with acid and steel balls launched with professional slingshoots

But yeah, sure, disproportionate use of force, foam bullets hurt a lot, police is evil, whatever...

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#280

Post by rigorous » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 2:08 AM UTC

Will_Parker wrote: post #249

tremon wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. We only need one set of gendered pronouns. Using words from one set for some people, while using words from a different set for other people, is subject to arbitrary interpretation and therefore vulnerable to othering.

> We only need one set of gendered pronouns Which set do you think would suffice?

In my native language, that is, Kazakh, third-person pronouns are gender-less.

"It said it would come tomorrow" means "He/She/It said he/she/it would come tomorrow" and it somehow works :) You're to infer the gender from context.