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Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

theguardian.com

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Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#41

Post by nkrisc »

leetcrew wrote: post #25
lovich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not been true for almost every device I can think of other than firearms/explosives. If someone steals your car and crashes it are you responsible? If not why are computers different?

when a computer is provided to you by an organization, you are usually obligated to take reasonable steps to prevent its misuse and especially to prevent misuse of your credentials. do you really disagree that this is the case?

Remember, we're talking about children, here. It's absurd to hold them to the same high standard as adults.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#42

Post by deogeo »

fetus8 wrote: post #20
JohnFen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a perverted sense, this is an opportunity to teach the children a very important lesson: if you're using a machine or network owned and operated by your employer (or, by extension, your school), then you should be scrupulous about only using it for work (or school) business.

Very firm agree. These devices were school owned, and technically "government" owned property. They were not handed out to the students to use however they pleased. They were to be utilized for digital text books, curriculum, and ancillary education resources that were designed by the teachers and administrators of the district. We locked the devices down so that student's couldn't get to certain kinds of apps, parts…

Take money via taxes, and give it back in the form of laptops - oh but now there's strings attached.

That something is 'government owned' is no excuse for such a disgusting violation of privacy. Services paid by taxes should serve, not act as means to control people.

> We (as the school district) were wholly responsible for what the student's did on these school owned devices.

Why?? By what legal theory?? If person A gives item X to person B, why would A be responsible for what B does with X? Maybe if B was a minor and did not get parental consent - but that was not the case, was it?

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#43

Post by JohnFen »

itronitron wrote: post #32
JohnFen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a perverted sense, this is an opportunity to teach the children a very important lesson: if you're using a machine or network owned and operated by your employer (or, by extension, your school), then you should be scrupulous about only using it for work (or school) business.

I am under the impression since these devices are issued by schools that they are intended to facilitate learning, not 'school business'.

I believe that counts as "school business" if you're a student.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#44

Post by DataWorker »

closeparen wrote: post #35
ASalazarMX wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They said it was all ok because that the actual fingerprints aren't stored on the system, only information derived from the fingerprints I hate this blatantly flawed reasoning. The data collection is the problem, and it doesn't matter if you store pictures of fingers/faces/irises/ids or just their post-process signatures, it's still data collection.

Forcing students to generate data and then using it against them isn’t incidental to education, it’s the whole thing. Imagine having the right to edit, delete, and restrict processing of your grades and attendance records. Imagine having the right to an equal shot at college admission while declining to reveal any test scores. It would upend everything about school.

You’re downvoted for some reason but you’re correct. Public school is about the power of the state over individuals. Data collection in the form of attendance is the business model. Schools get paid only to the extent they have data on the kids. No data means no public schools. What’s the saying, if something is free then you’re the product. True for Facebook and true for public education.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#45

Post by raxxorrax »

anon9001 wrote: post #26
Ididntdothis wrote: post #21

It’s pretty much guaranteed that the next generation will grow up with the experience of always watched. Either they get watched by the parents who never let them do anything alone or by technology. Pretty sad in my view but almost inevitable.

As someone raised by helicopter parents that were way ahead of their time, this has been kind of nice for me. It's pretty amusing to me that I used to be the weird one connected to the internet all the time because I pretty much couldn't do anything else, and now that's a shared experience with the entire new generation.

Heh, shared pain is lessened. Just sad for the other kids though.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#46

Post by heavyset_go »

jolmg wrote: post #39
heavyset_go wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * it's kind of weird that we are opposed to children's safety.* They're hoovering up PII that belongs to children and giving it to some company, and parents have to just trust that both the school and said company can keep it safe.

Are you saying that it's good because they only need to trust these 2 entities? Isn't it better to not have to trust either? There wasn't a need to provide this info before.

I think it's concerning that people in charge of collecting kids' PII repond to inquiries about said collection with askance.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#47

Post by heavyset_go »

deogeo wrote: post #40
heavyset_go wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * it's kind of weird that we are opposed to children's safety.* They're hoovering up PII that belongs to children and giving it to some company, and parents have to just trust that both the school and said company can keep it safe.

> trust that both the school and said company can keep it safe. Safe, to be used later to build a profile of your child, and sell it to employers, insurance companies, the police, intelligence agencies, or anyone else willing to pay a few cents or send a subpoena.

Exactly how safe will these kids be if someone with nefarious intentions gets their hands on their PII? Not very, if you ask me.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#49

Post by abj »

DataWorker wrote: post #44
closeparen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing students to generate data and then using it against them isn’t incidental to education, it’s the whole thing. Imagine having the right to edit, delete, and restrict processing of your grades and attendance records. Imagine having the right to an equal shot at college admission while declining to reveal any test scores. It would upend everything about school.

You’re downvoted for some reason but you’re correct. Public school is about the power of the state over individuals. Data collection in the form of attendance is the business model. Schools get paid only to the extent they have data on the kids. No data means no public schools. What’s the saying, if something is free then you’re the product. True for Facebook and true for public education.

I'd love to hear some contrasting viewpoints on these posts. It seems like they have a reasonable stance at first glance.

Re: Under digital surveillance: how American schools spy on millions of kids

#50

Post by gerbilly »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #21

It’s pretty much guaranteed that the next generation will grow up with the experience of always watched. Either they get watched by the parents who never let them do anything alone or by technology. Pretty sad in my view but almost inevitable.

I think you are right about everything but the timescale: the current generation of kids already grew up under constant surveillance...by their parents.

When I grew up, during evenings weekends and holidays, kids ran around in the neighborhood with their friends from sunup to sundown. Outside of mealtimes, parents had no idea where we were.

A generation later and parents started to time-box everything their kids do, soccer practise, play dates etc.

I think this is what makes millenials so comfortable with online surveillance, they see it as benevolent and benign, just like their parents were.

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