Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web • Hacker News Board

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#21

Post by MichaelGG » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:24 PM UTC

Yes, browsing via a proxy or VPN while not in the US is just common practice for plenty of folks. Apart from fraud flagging, the sites that geo-IP for language settings is very annoying. (Seriously, the IETF actually gets Accept-Language right, it's actually implemented, and then ignored?? Sigh.)

Google Chrome takes the cake here though. They use your IP to determine the install language. Even if you download the US binaries, they use your IP to determine your local search site and display non-English results.

The real kicker? Chrome then prompts "This page is in . Would you like to translate it?"

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#22

Post by markessien » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:24 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #18

markessien wrote: post #4

What I dislike about the attitude of many businesses towards Nigeria is the way they just dismiss the country with a wave of their hand. Sure, there is some scam coming out of the country, but some guy just looks at the numbers and then sends an email "Block Nigeria". And we're not talking of some small site, we're talking of one of the the biggest payment processors in the world. The country is the biggest market in…

Paypal, Google adwords, and many other services, do use statistical predictors to determine what is likely to be fraud. Many innocent people get flagged by them. This is a known and accepted risk of using such services. The fact is, if Paypal were not permitted to statistically discriminate, they wouldn't exist. Is it really a moral travesty that they are using nation of origin as one of the predictors?

They are not doing a statistical determination. There is no algorithm behind it that indicates when a country is safe to do business with. They have just switched off Nigeria. There is no appeal. There is no review.

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#23

Post by mahmud » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:24 PM UTC

noverloop wrote: post #2

start a corporate shell in the UK? (or some other cheap place)

Why does he need to jump through hoops that others don't? Oh yes, because he is a 2nd-class netizen, the whole premise of his essay!

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#24

Post by wybo » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:26 PM UTC

Maybe this is not a very popular response, but am I alone in thinking that the collective responsibility for this rests, to some extent at least, indeed with all Nigerians?

In that as citizens they should support politicians that take 419/spam/fraud issues seriously?

Were there no collective responsibility, then all arguments of the kind that the West owes/owed something to Africa for its colonial misdeeds, would even be less valid (as hardly anyone involved with that is around any more...).

(and just to clarify, I do think the West owes something to Africa, but collective responsibility can't go one way only. Being responsible, and building a reputation for it, is as important for nations as it is for businesses, teams and individual employees)

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#25

Post by si2 » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:27 PM UTC

Where do I send my bank account information?

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#26

Post by araneae » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:28 PM UTC

mycroftiv wrote: post #14

rsheridan6 wrote: post #3

"I cannot ignore two very fair arguments. The amount of fraud from this end has necessitated these measures. Hey! That’s a gap in the market, why don’t you guys in Africa do something about it?0 Fuck off." That's really not a very convincing counterargument.

As I interpret the sentiment, the author is indicating that he is writing simply to express his frustration at being an innocent victim of collective punishment. He is stating that he is aware of the causes of the situation, and that there may be ways to engage in productive change, but neither of those things changes the basic personal injustice he is directly experiencing. In other words, he is not attempting to ma…

But instead of saying that, he said "fuck you" which is more open to interpretation, I think.

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:31 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #16

markessien wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, how many paypal killers have been created? Now you want to go create a paypal killer from an african country with a low internet population, and expect big sites to support this? I think "fuck off" is an appropriate answer to people suggesting this - it's just not going to happen! It's obvious that it won't happen, so anyone suggesting it...just doesn't get it, I guess.

Small population? Nigeria has 180 million people. The rest of Africa has similar paypal issues, and a population of 600 million people

[deleted]

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#28

Post by BoppreH » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:34 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #21

Yes, browsing via a proxy or VPN while not in the US is just common practice for plenty of folks. Apart from fraud flagging, the sites that geo-IP for language settings is very annoying. (Seriously, the IETF actually gets Accept-Language right, it's actually implemented, and then ignored?? Sigh.) Google Chrome takes the cake here though. They use your IP to determine the install language. Even if you download the US…

It works well for normal people. And these options can be configured from the "under the hood" preferences tab.

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#29

Post by barrkel » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:42 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #18

markessien wrote: post #4

What I dislike about the attitude of many businesses towards Nigeria is the way they just dismiss the country with a wave of their hand. Sure, there is some scam coming out of the country, but some guy just looks at the numbers and then sends an email "Block Nigeria". And we're not talking of some small site, we're talking of one of the the biggest payment processors in the world. The country is the biggest market in…

Paypal, Google adwords, and many other services, do use statistical predictors to determine what is likely to be fraud. Many innocent people get flagged by them. This is a known and accepted risk of using such services. The fact is, if Paypal were not permitted to statistically discriminate, they wouldn't exist. Is it really a moral travesty that they are using nation of origin as one of the predictors?

It's unjust, particularly because "being a Nigerian in Nigeria" is not a condition that most people in that condition can simply elect to remove themselves from. Consider the situation from a Rawlsian veil of ignorance perspective.

Re: Life as a Second Class Citizen of the Web

#30

Post by daleharvey » Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 2:43 PM UTC

While on holiday in Morocco one of my domains got very close to expiring, after trying for an hour or so to renew it I have a friend my details and they logged in and done it immediately. for some reason didnt think of using a proxy

I couldnt imagine how frustrating it would be for that to happen regularly