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Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

theweek.com

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Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if instead of people protesting against income inequality, they protested against value contribution inequality...

To even have such a conversation you'd have to define value, and I think you'll have a tough time doing this. You're also essentially defining an economic aristocracy. Folks with more resources can contribute more value, which in common worldviews associated with what you said suggests they deserve more profit. That's the crassest form of economic attachment, and it's silly to pretend that it's efficient or fair.

Software engineers contribute more value to society than do McDonald's fry cooks.

A McDonald's fry cook could be a software engineer, but they choose not to.

McDonald's fry cooks protest for $15 minimum wage; instead of spending that time studying programming.

If we protested about not fully utilizing our lower contributing members of society, instead of condemning the highest contributing mebers; we'd have a healthier society.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#92

Wait until this soft gentle wave of climate activism fails...

Seriously. The only place where it has a single tooth is London, where theyre apparently banned now. Thus priming the police state to repress at full coal-generated-steam ahead.

I havent heard of anything much or meaningful in the US.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#93
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most young people are paradoxically for unfettered immigration I'm not sure that is true.

The woke young programmers of the bay (and elsewhere) consider any form of border control racist. I've seen this queried for exceptions, eg for convicted rapists and the rabid blue hairs torn that suggestion apart as a 'racist straw man'.

I'm kind of confused at this rhetoric, as it seems hypocritical on its face. It's denigrating calling an argument a racist straw man, while creating a straw man ('the rabid blue hairs'). I think this is a really poor way to enter a conversation, as even the people against border control only attack the argument while this post only attacks the people.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#94
post #58

In the US, it's less active protest and more things like slacking off heavily at work because it's a treadmill we can't win. We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. We as a nation have basically told people "no, you can't have a comfortable life or save for retirement because your parents' generation still needs to get 10% annual growth to make their retirement mat…

Occupy Wallstreet did happen but it was torpedoed by identity politics, the establishment only permits fervent discussion about gender and skin color.

> the establishment only permits fervent discussion about gender and skin color.

Do they? Try making a case that we don't need more than two sets of gendered pronouns in your tech job.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#95
post #2

Imagine if the current protests against inequality (and thereabouts) going on all around the world would be reported, scrutinized, and debated as much as when any of the established "enemies" have civil unrest. How quickly would things change?

Imagine if instead of people protesting against income inequality, they protested against value contribution inequality...

> Imagine if instead of people protesting against income inequality, they protested against value contribution inequality...

All protests are against perceived value contribution inequality, and against those perceived as contributing the least (or most negative) value; perhaps more precisely, against those perceived as producing the greatest negative externalized value contribution.

Of course, value being subjective, there are often sharp disputes about who is worthy of that treatment.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#96

[flagged]

> Most young people are paradoxically for unfettered immigration and against capitalism, but one is an economic policy and a result of the other.

Because many young people are increasingly sympathetic to the anarchist argument for the dissolution of borders. That's not paradoxical, the argument is that the national state should stop having the power to limit the movement of people.

> Simultaneously they are pushing for policies that increase competition and lower their wages (immigration),

This isn't actually a true statement. Immigrants are less expensive labor for a community, freeing up more capital for civil services, education and facilities. The idea that immigration lowers wages is a populist argument made by capitalists and reactionaries alike. Modern corporate capitalists actually LIKE the state limiting the supply of immigrant labor behind elaborate processes and form-filling. So long as they get their quota promptly, that is.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#97
> ... The last economic crisis contributed directly to the rise of populism over the following decade, but the next crisis will come squarely within the age of populism. ...

Although the article doesn't mention it, the next recession will also likely come during a powerful wave of job losses tied to automation.

Mixing popular resentment over the last debacle in which had few consequences for those responsible with the bewildering lack of jobs is a recipe for scapegoating other countries.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#98
>"The higher savings rate, we believe, has had disinflationary impact, driving the relatively slow growth and low inflation in this recovery," wrote an analyst for Raymond James, observing that younger people are "saving instead of purchasing like last generation, limiting demand growth."

this is what the constant specter of economic instability causes people to do. stash money under the bed, defer big purchases, and refuse to buy things that are not necessary for life. then, when the economy worsens, people feel like they are at least a little bit more prepared. the trick, of course, is that the actions taken to respond to their feelings of instability are more likely to cause a recession.

overall, the liberal-capitalist response to the outcry of the young public has been "shut up, get a job, consume more, be more competitive" -- and it will be just as tone deaf and infuriating in the coming recession as it has been since before the last recession.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#99

In the US, it's less active protest and more things like slacking off heavily at work because it's a treadmill we can't win. We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. We as a nation have basically told people "no, you can't have a comfortable life or save for retirement because your parents' generation still needs to get 10% annual growth to make their retirement mat…

>> We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income.

Pride? Character? Respect from colleagues?

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#100
This whole "capitalism bad" debate feels incredibly black and white.

I think what most people are really against is the one way street that capitalism established. It's a broken system, and it wouldn't matter if we had any other system as long as it would still be broken and abused.

On a global level, there are tax loopholes that allow multi billion corporations and individuals to pay essentially no taxes. This money is then used to further enrich the same parties through a financial market that is equally broken.

It has nothing to do with capitalism that wealth is created without a flow of goods or other value that is created from it. All it does is devalue all other wealth at a growing pace.

Capitalism is not ideal, it won't be. But if we moved towards actual, functional capitalism where governments did their part in keeping the whole thing from turning into a one way street, we would have a long way to go before we needed something else.

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