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Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

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Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#201

Post by nolok »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #142
nolok wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds crazy to me. If you're a funder / owner, sure, you don't count hours and it can get crazy. But if you're an employee... Most of my hires now are 30 hours a week, a few at 35h. I don't have anyone at 39h anymore, although that was still the norm a few years ago. Paid stayed the same, just reduced the hours. People are just way more productive that way, and they have two half day free on top of the normal S…

In which country is the working week 30h? Or is it just your company?

My company only, working week by law is 35h hours here

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#202

Post by zaarn »

vinay427 wrote: post #93
spectramax wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I feel like it’s cliche to hate on America these days. For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million. Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else. OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is bas…

As someone now living in Switzerland, I've found it largely futile trying to explain anything about Switzerland to most non-Europeans. For starters, no one seems to bother with what countries are in the EU, let alone the EEA, let alone where Switzerland is in all of this. Apparently "everyone in Europe" has free government-paid healthcare and never has to pay for any medical expenses. I could go on...

Tbf the borders of "Europe" are fairly complicated, there is the EU itself, the EEA, the Schengen Area, the Eurozone, EFTA and CEFTA, the EUCU, the EEU, the CISFTA, the OBSEC, the Eastern partnership (or EPA), the OECD Countries, the CEI, and finally the Council of Europe.

There is more that I probably forgot about but this should about cover it. None of these political areas and borders have 100% coverage amongst eachother, they're all different groups.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#203

Post by kharak »

Porthos9K wrote: post #99
eecc wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, non-coercive association between employee and employer... let's talk about job-market monopsony and its distortions thereof. (I'm starting to use this "market-distortion" framing for class struggle.)

Can we start by suggesting that if you don't have "fuck-you money", you aren't free?

One of the more fundamental realisations of our time. Yet most seem unaware. I'm not automatically free in a liberal democracy. Just more free than in others.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#204

Post by zaarn »

dahdum wrote: post #14

> In the email, Google said it was canceling the meeting because the company prefers to only host events on the topic organized in partnership with Google’s site leadership team. So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps? I’m not surprised management would try to cancel that, it sounds like a pr…

>So this was a meeting organized solely by employees, using company property, on the company campus, on a workday, with the only speakers allowed being the union reps?

As required by the law.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#206

Post by ben_utzer »

tahdig wrote: post #166
claudeganon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Western Europe has some glowing history of harmonious relations, I’ve got news for you. Heck, ask German-speaking Swiss people how they feel about French-speaking Swiss (and vice versa) and you’ll get a quick picture of how things aren’t so rosy.

Would love to read more on the topic of German/French-speaking Swiss, would you mind sharing some reads you would recommend?

Start here and then google rostigraben: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B6stigraben

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#207

Post by londons_explore »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #140
H8crilA wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd vote for everyone who has a reasonable plan of more scrutiny towards 40 hour work weeks. This may reduce salaries but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow. Let's have a life now! When are you going to enjoy life, after retirement? Would you wait with sex till after retirement, too, if that offered a salary increase?

>but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow Nope, that's just in the USA, us in Europe not at all. And I'm not even comparing EU salaries vs US salaries just tech salaries/property prices ratios for each location. You're not overpaid, it's us that are severely underpaid in comparison.

The lower salaries are probably due to the lack of VC funding, which in turn is rooted in a lack of really successful European tech companies.

If you work for a European company, chances are it won't grow and be successful to the same extent as an American one, and therefore your work has less value.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#208

Post by MandieD »

claudeganon wrote: post #132
icelancer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you exclude Western Europeans from your "immigrants" statement, which is what the parent comment was clearly implying, it's not even close to true.

If you think Western Europe has some glowing history of harmonious relations, I’ve got news for you. Heck, ask German-speaking Swiss people how they feel about French-speaking Swiss (and vice versa) and you’ll get a quick picture of how things aren’t so rosy.

Even better: ask German-speaking Swiss people how they feel about Germans.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#209

Post by Porthos9K »

kharak wrote: post #203
Porthos9K wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we start by suggesting that if you don't have "fuck-you money", you aren't free?

One of the more fundamental realisations of our time. Yet most seem unaware. I'm not automatically free in a liberal democracy. Just more free than in others.

I think it was a fundamental realization of the mid-nineteenth century, but we didn't use terms like "fuck you money" in polite society back then. :)

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#210

Post by Porthos9K »

briandear wrote: post #139
vkou wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't take that claim too seriously, because a real Libertarian would welcome a free, and non-coercive association between employees as much as they welcome the free, and completely non-coercive association between an employee, and their employer... (I am, of course, not at all coerced to work under the conditions my employer sets upon me!) But for some reason, many Libertarians have nothing but contempt for the fo…

Free and non-coercive is the key. Things such as Card Check mean that employees as individuals are able to be coerced to sign the card rather than unionization via secret ballot. Furthermore so-called “closed shops” infringe on an individual’s right to not join the union (or pay required representation fees.) Free and without coercion is fine, but in union activities in the US, it is rarely, if ever the case. Also lo…

> And no, you aren’t coerced to work for any employer. You freely accept employment conditions in exchange for the agreed upon wage

Do you actually believe this? You can be honest; it's not like you're among friends here.

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