Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

news.ycombinator.com

131–140 of 419 posts

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#131
post #26

It was a rough point in time. In the dot com boom, people who could rub two lines of visual basic (for applications) were getting jobs. If you did not like your job, you could make a phone call and have a few offers waiting for you by the end of the day. Glorious stock options at promising startups after fleecing larger companies in panics about y2k and missing the boom. The parties and travel... We were joking about…

> In the dot com boom, people who could rub two lines of visual basic (for applications) were getting jobs. If you did not like your job, you could make a phone call and have a few offers waiting for you by the end of the day. Yea, that doesn't sound anything like today! /sarcasm

There was no “grinding leetcode” in the late 90s...

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#132
I was affected by the bubble in a positive way.

I'm mid 30s, I got my first job in a junior role in 2001 doing web graphics (before I became a proper programmer).

I was hired because our CEO knew he couldn't hire people who had it good in the boom because they expected too much money.

So they specifically looked for people who had skills but limited or no job history, and paid them close to minimum wage.

It worked out well for me in the end as it was a foot in the door when loads of people were looking for work.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#133

I went through it, and started a company soon after it crashed and then a couple more during the downturn. Ironically a lot of money can be made in downturns if you know where to look and how to approach it. What I saw and experienced was enterprise devs basically just kept doing what they did. Startup devs that could went into (or back in some cases) to enterprises. Enterprises used it as an opportunity to snag up g…

>Ironically a lot of money can be made in downturns if you know where to look and how to approach it. Can you expand on this? I'm honestly curious about what machinations begin once a company dies or the market sinks.

Start a new company. Lots of talent available and investors look for heads-down new things. Classic Namazu stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#134
Imagine all the hype. But few average citizens online. Little to no e-commerce from consumers. No smartphones within mobile data that was fast.

The majority of people around the web were either techies, or speculators who didn’t understand it and wanted to cash in.

Average devs were largely devs because they grew up with a passion for tech before it being a profession. The fact that it child be a profession was a bonus. Today some would say you find more devs who choose it as a profession first but not a childhood passion.

When the crash happened there were fewer tech jobs. For the speculation and hype based businesses. I switched to tech in the b2b space because it paid.. with a goal of to become as recession proof and crash proof with my skills because I believed in what software could accomplish that much.

After that there was Napster.. Friendster.. hi5 that built up to the next internet generation.. Around 2005 Facebook became the first thing that average people did online, followed by 2009 and the iPad arriving where there was a shift from people becoming primarily consumers instead of creators with tech.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#135
I really recommend the 2000 documentary Code Rush[1] about Netscape's open sourcing of the browser and acquisition by AOL. It doesn't give any major insights into the industry, but does give a glimpse of what the culture was like back then.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7FTjhvZ7Y

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#136
I had a good internship every summer through school and was about a year out of school working for a multinational media company when the layoffs came. It was clear an adjustment was on the way so I'd thankfully secured a gig in health care where I hung out for the next two and a half years until I could make another move. Those brick-and-mortar companies were flush with talent as they were less impacted and benefitted from formerly hard to hire tech workers. It was at least into 2005 before things started to pick up again in the Seattle area such that you felt that you had any real latitude. Things are different today - many more robust tech employers in the Seattle area, especially in the city itself. Same rules apply though - just because you are minting money doesn't mean you should increase your spending, as what goes up always goes back down eventually.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#137
I started my own consulting business in 1995. I've thus been through two recessions -- in 2000, and then in 2008.

In 2000, I had just hired five people to work for me, as I expanded my Web consulting agency. For about a year, we had lots of work, from clients all over the world. The phone was ringing off the hook. We were making money. I was learning how to sell work done by other people, not just by myself.

And then the bottom dropped out.

It was very difficult, since I had to pay salaries, office rent, and the like. I was scared. I was upset. I even worried that the debts would force my family to lose our house. (We didn't actually come close to that, but I did worry about it.)

I mean, when I started my own business, I figured that if things didn't work out, I could always get a "real" job, at a real company. But now I was on the hook for other people's salaries.

I ended up firing everyone, and taking no salary for several months. I had enough work for myself, most of the time, and much of that money went toward paying back the bank's line of credit, as well as (to some degree) paying my own salary.

As a result, I promised myself (and my wife) never to have full-time employees again. I did have a bunch of employees whom I hired on an hourly basis, giving them a generous proportion of whatever money they brought in . (Too generous, my accountant consistently told me.) This meant that in bad times, I wasn't on the hook for their salaries. I should note that this arrangement wasn't for everyone -- but I was very straight about it with potential hires, and also told them that it was completely OK for them to be doing other jobs while working for me.

So yeah, this recession really hurt. And it made me much more cautious. There were months when I had literally no work, but that was pretty rare -- again, I was generally able to get enough work for myself to get by. But I was putting out feelers everywhere, looking for whatever development projects I could find.

Fast forward a few years, to recession #2. We were living in Chicago, where I was finishing the coursework and initial research for my PhD. I would walk with my eldest child to her kindergarten, and we would see a growing number of homes for sale. Moreover, we saw that they were for sale for a long time. We had a very clear view of the US housing market turning sour, but it wasn't clear at that point that things were going to be as bad as they were.

We moved back to Israel in the summer of 2008, and it was immediately clear that things were bad, and getting worse. Lots of high-tech companies were laying people off. I was worried that I would get swept up in this, and not be able to find work. And indeed, it was hard (but not impossible) to find projects.

The good news was that I had enough of an established reputation by this point that I managed to find projects. Again, I wasn't filling my calendar 100%, but it was about 75% full, which was much better than other people. I also got into training more heavily, and that turned out not only to fill my calendar pretty consistently, but also showed me how much I enjoyed training and could/should specialize in it.

One of my worries was that lots of people would get laid off, and then start their own consulting businesses, competing with me. My accountant laughed when I said this, telling me that most people who have full-time jobs done then want to go into business for themselves. And he was right.

I do expect a recession -- or if nothing else, a slowdown -- in the coming year, and I'm starting to prepare myself for it. I'm now doing training in Python and data science, and constantly reach out to companies to find out if they're interested in such things. But I also have a large (14k subscriber) free, weekly newsletter about Python that gets my name out. And I'm selling a growing number of online courses to individuals, which will (I expect) cushion any problems I might have with my in-person corporate training.

But each recession is different, and teaches us different lessons -- so I'm hoping that my previous experience will be helpful, but I'm sure that I'll discover all sorts of new problems as the coming year unfolds.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#139
I was working at Microsoft at the time. All the smart cool people left to go do startups, money was easy to get. This was 5 years in to my first job. I encouraged my friends not to sell their Microsoft stock because it was going up for a long time still (some are even still my friends). The market crashed but Microsoft kept on going. I didn't really notice a change. Many of my friends came back to the mother ship. I recognize I was lucky.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#140
I entered the industry in 2000, and it was "programming geeks"—people who dug computers and thought coding was fun—who survived the dot com bust mostly unscathed. Dabblers, fillers, talkers, people-managers, org-climbers, etc. had some pretty lean years.

That isn't to say some programming geeks didn't get sacked, but they tended to land on their feet. Also, it was often the hard-negotiating salary-seekers who found themselves in the cross-hairs, and possibly facing a slight decrease in standard of living, because of the big price tags they'd put on themselves.

Post reply on HN