The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control • Hacker News Board

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#71

Post by esotericn » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

Developers who work on adtech nonsense, GDPR popups, etc, should take a hard look in the mirror.

Yeah, you might make a bit of money, and yeah, maybe your colleagues, in your sick system, give you a bit of respect.

One day, I think you're going to wake up and realise that you wasted your talents. Like a war veteran who thought what they were doing was right, that the ends justified the means, until suddenly one day it all came crashing down around them.

You have the choice, here and now. You're sitting in front of a general purpose computer. You can make fun and interesting tools - you can make stuff to break down barriers - the pathways you can take your craft are unlimited.

Choose wisely.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#72

Post by shpx » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 1:45 AM UTC

MiroF wrote: post #57

gonehome wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My default for those kinds of queries now is “ reddit”. Google results are generally poor otherwise. I’m not sure if this is because their algorithms are gamed or if it’s just because the internet outside of the main website hubs is just generally low quality (most high quality content has moved to hubs like reddit).

i guess i was naive in thinking i was the only one!

It's just a matter of time until the "marketers" catch on. Maybe they already know and just haven't found a way to prove the business case because there's no easy way to measure how much some locked Reddit thread from a few years ago influences buying decisions.

I'm curious to see what kind of innuendo they invent for "astroturfing Reddit reviews".

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#73

Post by codingslave » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #51

stuart78 wrote: post #38

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind t…

My default for those kinds of queries now is “ reddit”. Google results are generally poor otherwise. I’m not sure if this is because their algorithms are gamed or if it’s just because the internet outside of the main website hubs is just generally low quality (most high quality content has moved to hubs like reddit).

Yeah I do this on almost every search

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#74

Post by dceddia » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 1:49 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #67

mc32 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s s sad state of affairs for product search. I do the same (site:reddit) and I’m almost certain most people do too. Google search I guess is good for entertainment search or “buzzy” things like whatever is trending on the trendsetting social networks of the day, but regular search is too spammy and farmed stuff. Often it’s junk.

I don’t think most people do, because if they did, Reddit would also be gamed.

Not saying it is, but, how would you know it isn't?

I imagine that either "they" (the advertisers/companies) have either already figured this out and are learning how to leave grassroots-looking comments, or they will pretty soon.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#75

Post by tomc1985 » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #47

stuart78 wrote: post #38

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind t…

https://www.millionshort.com/ Can be a big help here - search without the top million (or 100k etc) results - the SEO driven and commercial giants. Results vary, but I find it really useful when the main results are all engagement ad driven crap. Some of the old-school web is still around, it's just down on page 20+ of Google and Bing.

I really like this idea -- it seems like it would be impossible to optimize both for Google and something like this

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#76

Post by tomatotomato37 » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 1:56 AM UTC

asteli wrote: post #19

shadowgovt wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Given that the free internet gave us the likes of 4chan, things are changing in the other direction for a reason. It's kind of unclear to me whether the pendulum is ready to swing back towards lack of oversight again.

I think there's an argument that the consolidated internet caused 4chan to morph from a benign imageboard to the relative monster it is today. 4chan didn't start as a cancer, it became that way when all the 'normies' left for reddit|facebook|twitter.

It's actually kinda the opposite, 4chan traffic more than doubled[0] (with a matching decrease in quality) after gamergate and the election, and there is a general consensus that it's going to get worse when the next election ramps up

[0]https://s2.desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/a/image/1543/01/154...

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#77

Post by ziggomat » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 2:04 AM UTC

Bit ironic that all of these articles about how the internet has lost its creativity is always on boring yet slick graphic-designer-cum-ux-designer-in-metropolis looking website.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#78

Post by 1over137 » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

ivankolev wrote: post #32

maxwell wrote: post #12

> three decades following the creation of the Internet The internet turns 50 in a week.

People often conflate the web with internet, and given how predominant http has become, I don't blame them.

Yeah, heck, with DoH, you could almost say there is no internet, only the web. :)

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#79

Post by phs318u » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

inimino wrote: post #69

stuart78 wrote: post #38

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind t…

> golden age of espresso machine reviews Probably when the first search result was a hobby page maintained by an espresso machine enthusiast. Those days ended early, but I remember the pre-commercial Web and it was a very different place.

I remember using a work sponsored subscription to Compuserve back in the day, and finding it incredibly useful. Signal to noise ratio was awesome (for a pretty narrow set of subject areas). I guess there’s something to be said - in certain domains - for a real, direct cost, acting as a barrier to bots and “frivolous” use. Having to pay to publish (and to consume) separates the diamonds from the diarrhoea. However this is really just saying that “walled gardens” are nice. I don’t think a return to this approach is viable except in specific knowledge domains (where the knowledge is explicitly highly valued). Espresso machine reviews (as per example floating around in this thread) may not be such a domain.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#80

Post by shostack » Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #51

stuart78 wrote: post #38

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind t…

My default for those kinds of queries now is “ reddit”. Google results are generally poor otherwise. I’m not sure if this is because their algorithms are gamed or if it’s just because the internet outside of the main website hubs is just generally low quality (most high quality content has moved to hubs like reddit).

This. There's some really knowledgeable people over in /r/coffee that set me straight when picking out my espresso machine and grinder.