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Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

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Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#11
IIRC, It was the perfect storm. Y2K bug projects were complete, Microsoft had been found guilty of monopolistic practices, the euro conversion projects were winding down or complete. I think Greenspan was raising the fed rates, and taxes were due, so people were selling to pay those. Then 9/11 happened and that was the final nail in the coffin.

This was the first, "learn to code," era that I recall, so there were a lot of not-necessarily computer savvy people in the industry, and they were getting hired. Once things started to slide, companies just stopped hiring as a sort-term strategy, many held layoffs too. Many people were pushed out of the industry for good. I was stuck as a contractor and in-between contracts out of blind luck. I was 4-5 years into a promising career and I couldn't find work for 6 months. I felt absolutely worthless.

Fortunately I knew a guy who was a partner at my previous contracting firm. He just pulled a CIO position in a city 2 hours away and they needed someone to take over their engine (software shop). I had to pick-up and move, but I got a job that paid a lot less than my previous ones.

I survived, partly because I worked hard, like I was scared to lose my job. I still work that way. People take notice and will call you when they switch companies and need to fill a position. Because of this, I haven't had to do a formal / cold interview since the dot bomb.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#12
post #10

Backdrop: I was inspired by games and went to CS undergrad with the hopes of becoming a videogame developer and ultimately a designer/director. I started college just as BBS distribution gave way to the World Wide Web; I had to learn HTML in order to distribute my shareware games. Moonshots: I dropped out of school with only a year left to graduate because the Web development startup I launched with two of my friends…

The cartoon if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dMFM-Jqji0

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#13
I was at ask.com during the crash. The first bad part for me was the options. I planned on selling them the instant they vested. A week before vesting they were trading in the low hundred dollar range. The day they vested they were in the dollar range, with a strike price of 10 dollars. Thank goodness I didn't exercise them or I'd be stuck in the tax boat. So it was demoralizing, but I still had my salary, and I was young enough for that to be enough.

I weathered three rounds of layoffs and that was pretty harsh too. Every morning we'd check fuckedcompany.com and look for Ask in there. One morning it popped up with a 60% layoff in two days. It was almost exactly right; 16% of staff were laid off. Someone mis-heard the number.

I was in a smaller off-shoot office, so when people were cut they were called into the managers office, and while there security would pack their desk. When they came out of the office the box was just sitting on the floor, right outside the door. By the second round the manager just wouldn't come in that day, and the main office would send some stranger to do it.

At first I rationalized the people who were cut as people who weren't valuable, weren't adding to the bottom line. They were the less technical people, and their jobs were more nebulous, so it was easy to ease any mental pangs. It was a way of coping with something similar to survivor's guilt. Then when I was laid off, well, it was a tough time for me personally. I couldn't help applying the same rationale to myself. I wasn't valuable. I wasn't adding to the bottom line. The company is better off without me.

They gave me a pretty nice severance check. I convinced them to keep me on for another week to document my project. It was actually one of the only cash-positive projects at the company, due to contracts with Visa and Nike. That extra week pushed me into 2 years of tenure, which bumped my severance from two months pay to three.

I did not do anything mature with the money.

Generally the attitude I saw was to hunker down and try to weather the storm. Nobody interviewed because nobody could get recruiters to answer the phone. And nobody wanted their manager to think they were interviewing; that was a great way to be called in first during the next round. And lots of late nights working; gotta show you're still committed, despite everything crumbling around you.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#14
I was a young-ish dev at a smallish (200 or so people) company in the Bay Area during the dot-com crash. I came in one day to find that something like 1/3 of the people in the company, seemingly chosen at random, no longer worked there. Those of us who remained were consolidated into one floor instead of the two we had before. My salary and options were not affected, and the (basic by modern standards) free food stayed pretty much the same, though I think WebVan was no longer around to deliver it. I left soon after that, and the company lived on in cockroach mode for years. I think it was eventually acquired, but I haven't paid much attention.

One reason my experience wasn't catastrophic was that I was at an infrastructure company, not a hype-driven one like Pets.com. If/when the current ad bubble bursts, average devs will fare best working at companies several steps removed from the hype. People may not want micro-targeted ads, but they'll still need software.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#16
I was working at a dotcom, a geocities knockoff, that had recently gone public and had climbed up to around $30/share. I had options that I had already exercised as I was being clever thinking I'd sell them after holding them for a year. But I was still locked out as an employee, and we all watched as the the price dropped over a period of weeks. After a while it was under my exercise price so I lost money. All told it wasn't a lot of options and not a lot of money I lost either. A couple of decades later I sold the position to take the loss and offset other stock gains.

The layoffs happened in two rounds - the first round the severance packages were rumored to be generous. The second round, my round, we got two weeks pay.

This was spring of 2001. People had trouble finding a job, but they were still out there. I got another one for summer of 2001 but they laid me off after three months, and then 9/11 happened ten days later.

After that it was brutal. Up here in Portland, no one was hiring at all. One time a job opening came up and all the applicants were taken to a large conference room where we all took a silent written exam together, with applicant names anonymized to protect against discrimination. I got that offer and rejected it, which completely freaked out the agency recruiter that was representing me. Nike and Intel would occasionally advertise programming contracts for $12/hour - php, perl - and they would be swarmed with applicants. I'd talk to agency recruiters but they kept getting laid off, so it'd be a different one every couple of weeks.

I was taking unemployment, I toyed with a business idea, and I eventually thought I'd try out contracting - I cold-called a prospective client that had a small company, and he brought me on for $25/hour, usually working at his condo with him and ordering pizza together. A few months later - Feb. of 2002 I believe, I got my first more official-ish contract for $55/hour, and I've been in business as a backend architectural contractor/consultant ever since.

Over that period of tim, I found that consulting is kind of a leading indicator of the economy. When times are bad, maybe you can get good gigs at employers that need help but are reluctant to commit to an employee. But if times are just starting to go bad, non-employees can be let go quicker.

Anyways, remember that the dotcom crash got mixed up with the post-9/11 chaos, so the next crash probably won't have the same impact. Also, remember that recessions are cyclical. It gets better by definition. I still believe that 2001 and 2007 were Weird in a way that recessions usually aren't. And a recession might even be good for the younger generation since they tend to clear away people that have jobs but shouldn't, leaving more future openings for the folks that are still hustling and learning.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#17
2002 - I was about to start university studying comp-sci, meanwhile, I was working as a security guard in Toronto at HQ of one of the largest banks in Canada. The majority of guards were laid off software developers that couldn't find a developer position. Some were actively trying to move to trades.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#18

I went through it, and started a company soon after it crashed and then a couple more during the downturn. Ironically a lot of money can be made in downturns if you know where to look and how to approach it. What I saw and experienced was enterprise devs basically just kept doing what they did. Startup devs that could went into (or back in some cases) to enterprises. Enterprises used it as an opportunity to snag up g…

> To be fair, true developers were not really negatively affected at least not more so than other professions.

That was my experience as well, all the weird roles got cut in companies, all the crazy extras removed, but the companies that had working business models kept on trucking and hiring competent developers, and competent developers at unsustainable businesses had no trouble finding new work.

Because at the end of the day, the dotcom crash was about the crazy financial expectations of internet-enabled companies, not a rejection of the internet itself.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#19

I went through it, and started a company soon after it crashed and then a couple more during the downturn. Ironically a lot of money can be made in downturns if you know where to look and how to approach it. What I saw and experienced was enterprise devs basically just kept doing what they did. Startup devs that could went into (or back in some cases) to enterprises. Enterprises used it as an opportunity to snag up g…

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Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#20

I went through it, and started a company soon after it crashed and then a couple more during the downturn. Ironically a lot of money can be made in downturns if you know where to look and how to approach it. What I saw and experienced was enterprise devs basically just kept doing what they did. Startup devs that could went into (or back in some cases) to enterprises. Enterprises used it as an opportunity to snag up g…

> To be fair, true developers were not really negatively affected at least not more so than other professions. That was my experience as well, all the weird roles got cut in companies, all the crazy extras removed, but the companies that had working business models kept on trucking and hiring competent developers, and competent developers at unsustainable businesses had no trouble finding new work. Because at the end…

Austrian school of economics believes that occasional recessions are useful because they destroy bad ideas (not exclusively bad ideas, but many bad ideas) and therefore free up resources for new ideas. Some of which will be good, some bad.

For a huge example: Madoff was only discovered because of the 2008 crisis. SEC had plenty of evidence against him for years before that, including the fact he did not actually trade! The guy didn't even trade securities and posted consistent double digits returns! The SEC did not investigate. Only when clients started asking for funds has the scheme collapsed.

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