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Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

nautil.us

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Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#61

Post by mikeg8 »

The premise of this article: Because a super-villain like attack “could” occur, we need to solve a technology threat, with more technology... that is more likely to be hacked and misused (eventually). Don’t agree.

If the “state” can’t defend me from fanastical threats, it serves no purpose and we should abolish it? Nope, don’t agree again. I accept that my state can’t guarantee ultimate protections from a Vin Diesel-like movie threat situation. However, my state provides other benefits like: funding for education, business regulations and tax credits, lending regulation, infrastructure build/repair, funding construction projects (my industry), wildlife protection, park systems, etc.

Joke of an article.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#62

Post by nostrademons »

subroutine wrote: post #55
nostrademons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaped charges are not bullets. They're bits of specially-molded explosives, such that the blast energy of the explosive forms the charge into a jet of molten metal. They don't rely on any kinetic energy at all to penetrate, and can be delivered by sticking a small candle-sized (the little ones, like you might see at a fancy dinner) device onto the targeted surface. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge

What you said directly contradicts the wiki article you linked... "Contrary to a widespread misconception (possibly resulting from the acronym HEAT) the shaped charge does not depend in any way on heating or melting for its effectiveness; that is, the jet from a shaped charge does not melt its way through armor, as its effect is purely kinetic in nature"

No, it doesn't contradict it. What I mean by "doesn't require any kinetic energy to penetrate" is that the explosive doesn't need to be moving at all to penetrate. For example, you can stick a shape charge directly underneath a parked tank, detonate it, and it will blow up the tank. (This is exactly what a landmine or IED does.) You could also just drop it by parachute from a drone (this is a cluster bomb).

What the Wikipedia article is saying is that the explosive forms its own projectile out of the molten metal casing, which is expelled at high velocity from the explosive and then penetrates through kinetic energy. It's a matter of where the energy for penetration comes from: what both Wikipedia and I are saying is that it comes from the explosive charge itself, not the velocity of the projectile, and hence there's no need for recoil when fired from a drone.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#63

Post by darkerside »

trentnix wrote: post #52
DSingularity wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this "panopticon" but I don't think suggesting it as a solution makes the author an "aspiring" fascist.

On the contrary, that's exactly what it makes him.

What exactly do you think fascist means

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#64

Post by chongli »

subroutine wrote: post #50
chongli wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And shaped charges are entirely besides the point. They could instead carry a small auto-injector (like an EpiPen) containing a few mg of ricin [1]. It'd be like getting stung by an insect. Within days the symptoms would start to appear. If this happened to even a few hundred people, let alone thousands, then hospitals would be completely overwhelmed and people would be dying everywhere. It would cause a mass panic.…

A few hundred is within the scope of what people are doing with conventional explosives. The article is talking about the ability to target millions of people. I just don't believe we will see a day when tiny drones with epipens pose a greater threat than guns.

What sets it apart from conventional explosives is that it's decentralized. A single attacker can distribute these things all over a city. This makes it much more difficult to mitigate the threat, let alone apprehend the attacker.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#66

Post by huffmsa »

defen wrote: post #9

> In this scenario, the K/K ratio could be perhaps 3/1,000,000, assuming a 10-percent accuracy and only a single one-gram shaped charge per drone. So you "only" need 10 million drones and 10 million grams of plastic explosive? An attack of that magnitude probably requires the resources of a nation-state, so I doubt it will happen. Targeted assassinations seem more plausible.

10000kg of explosives. Or 22,000lb for us Americans.

11 tons of high explosive.

Good luck with that.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#67

Post by sp332 »

trentnix wrote: post #52
DSingularity wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this "panopticon" but I don't think suggesting it as a solution makes the author an "aspiring" fascist.

On the contrary, that's exactly what it makes him.

Not all totalitarianism is fascism.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#68

Post by noonespecial »

“A very, very small quadcopter, one inch in diameter can carry a one-or two-gram shaped charge,” he says. “You can order them from a drone manufacturer in China. You can program the code...

Or you could start a meme about sneaking up on people and punching them in the head to try to knock them out, styling it as some sort of game.

Guess which one I'm more worried about.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#69

Post by mavdi »

XorNot wrote: post #23
defen wrote: post #9

> In this scenario, the K/K ratio could be perhaps 3/1,000,000, assuming a 10-percent accuracy and only a single one-gram shaped charge per drone. So you "only" need 10 million drones and 10 million grams of plastic explosive? An attack of that magnitude probably requires the resources of a nation-state, so I doubt it will happen. Targeted assassinations seem more plausible.

I mean if you barred the doors to a theater and tossed a few gallons of bleach and vinegar in you could also just gas hundreds of people, but it doesn't happen. We worry a lot about technology because the attacks sound novel, but not about the conventional ones which still (mostly) don't happen because the reality is that the actual logistical challenges of implementing them without security services noticing still h…

Agree with all that, but when it comes to synbio, the article is 100% right to raise alarms.
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