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Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

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Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#161
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem clear at all that having many different kinds of Western Europeans makes for a "highly homogeneous" culture compared to neighboring countries that generally have only one kind of Western European.

The culture between Italy and France is much closer than Italy and Algeria. For as much difference there is between the countries in Western Europe, there are far more similarities amongst them compared to other continents and larger regions. Counting Italians as "immigrants" is at the very least slightly misleading.

It is more misleading to count somebody as different who is second or third generation American and who has fully adapted American culture values and norms but count that person as more different to the host country due to different skin color or remote country of origin than a Spanish person whom just settled in Switzerland.

The slightly racist assumption in America is that if I as a white Norwegian settle in America I contribute less to diversity than a black American who has lived his whole life in America.

In America diversity is all about what you see on the outside.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#162
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you compare your salary and expenses to that of someone who was working blue collar 40 years ago. My dad made enough to support a family of four as an appliance repair man. He got a new car every so often, built a shop and had a home mostly paid for and we went on vacations. Going to the doctor wasnt a big deal and no one worried about being bankrupt from a hospital stay/ I am supporting a family of four and we…

This is very true, most people i talk to do not realise labour's share of income has been declining for 50 years straight. Here is a link by no other than the IMF: https://blogs.imf.org/2017/04/12/drivers-of-declining-labor-...

I am not in blue collar :)

I make 6 figures a year in IT and cant keep up with what he made fixing washers

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#163
post #35

Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…

Not all of us want a union

Outside the US there tends to be free choice of union. E.g. in Nordic countries Germany etc you normally have multiple unions to choose from and you don’t have to be member if you don’t have to.

It is the US and Anglo-Saxon countries were unions tend to be a binary thing. Germanic countries tend to follow a different union system: sector wise unions rather than company specific unions. Different types of employees will typically join a different union depending on the type of work and interests they have.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd vote for everyone who has a reasonable plan of more scrutiny towards 40 hour work weeks. This may reduce salaries but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow. Let's have a life now! When are you going to enjoy life, after retirement? Would you wait with sex till after retirement, too, if that offered a salary increase?

>but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow Nope, that's just in the USA, us in Europe not at all. And I'm not even comparing EU salaries vs US salaries just tech salaries/property prices ratios for each location. You're not overpaid, it's us that are severely underpaid in comparison.

I'd wager that salaries in Europe are so small compared to USA precisely because of all the "protections" workers receive from the unions and the government, making it almost impossible to fire lousy workers.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#165
post #35

Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…

I remember reading this post* which is very useful for comparing US and Swiss(Or European in general) work culture.

* "Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture" https://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/8974435/switzerland-work-life-...

I can attest to the European side of comparison, they do value work but they also value the resting and recovering part.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you exclude Western Europeans from your "immigrants" statement, which is what the parent comment was clearly implying, it's not even close to true.

If you think Western Europe has some glowing history of harmonious relations, I’ve got news for you. Heck, ask German-speaking Swiss people how they feel about French-speaking Swiss (and vice versa) and you’ll get a quick picture of how things aren’t so rosy.

Would love to read more on the topic of German/French-speaking Swiss, would you mind sharing some reads you would recommend?

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already exist in a democratic system (assuming you're posting from the first world) where majority (mostly, some caveats) rules. This isn't any different. Everyone gets a vote, not everyone gets their way.

Not quite. I live in a republic. The majority wins elections but still don't get to totally trample on the minority, because we have a limited government. Now, a union election isn't a government election, so that doesn't totally apply. But, for example, the majority has decided to pass legislation that makes my current state a right-to-work state, so a union can't require me to be a member, even if they win the elec…

[deleted]

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of course, union members with workplace protections don't usually get stock grants, free food, and a free gym. The reason Google provides those things is because someone crunched the numbers and determined that it was a cheaper way to get employees to work free overtime compared to higher salaries.

How many unionized companies pay higher salaries than Google?

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-offer-415-million-to-...

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#169
post #74
post #35

Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…

Cynically, their response will be to grow offices elsewhere.

Well, good luck finding alumni as good as the ones from ETH Zürich anywhere else.

Not counting the MIT, Stanford, Harvard, UOT etc. that they have to compete with other FAANG for graduates.

Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich

#170
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Western Europe has some glowing history of harmonious relations, I’ve got news for you. Heck, ask German-speaking Swiss people how they feel about French-speaking Swiss (and vice versa) and you’ll get a quick picture of how things aren’t so rosy.

Would love to read more on the topic of German/French-speaking Swiss, would you mind sharing some reads you would recommend?

Most of my knowledge of the subject comes from Swiss friends, so unfortunately can’t recommend any books or articles.
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