Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined • Hacker News Board

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#141

Post by rakejake » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #27

chimi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the industries are competing to be the one by which you display your worth to society. The order as I see it is: House, Car, Clothes, Phone. Jewelry goes in there somewhere. Each of these products is trying to convince you of their value, excess value really, so you will spend your money on them, yet the expense of the product isn't worth much. You need a house to protect you from the weather and other people. Af…

I would argue the issue with clothing is the opposite: you can buy very cheap clothes now. H&M,Zara,C&A,Terranova etc all allow you to get a t-shirt, skirt, dress or whatever for ten bucks. It's cheap synthetic and won't last long but who cares, you paid ten bucks for it. And so each season you buy 3-4 new ones...

The clothes being cheap here is not the problem although it definitely does not help. The problem here is fast fashion and the constant recycling of fashion trends. I'd argue that this is more of a cultural problem. If the clothes are cheap but the trend changes biannually instead of annually, you're going to see a drop in purchases.

The diktat should be "Buy cheap clothes but not very often". You don't have to go all the way to a suit with matching tie and shoes. Polos, shirts, jeans, chinos can be had for cheap too, and they last long.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#142

Post by jferge » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

technology / D2C / supply chain startups are desperately needed in this area to solve these problems.

At unspuntech.com (where i'm employed) we're working on creating high quality denim garments using 3D body scanning as the basis for custom fit. This allows us to go 0 inventory, and consumers generally don't mind a 2-3 week wait time for manufacturing thus far. up to 10-30% of garments end up unsold, so 0 inventory can have a large effect. We're also working on robotics solutions to remove steps from the manufacturing process, and eventually to reuse parts of the garment that get worn out.

More thought has to be put into the fast fashion part of the equation -- consumers (moreso women than men for clothing) want a large variety of options, and if they can get them at the cheapest prices, why not? There either needs to be a shift culturally (maybe look at how organic foods became prevalent at super markets) or through some sort of regulation (not ideal).

if any hner's want to talk more about these issues, please email me!

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#143

Post by tito » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #98

pergadad wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shipping numbers are rather dubious. No way it's actually"just" that much. Reporting is lacking and even where it's enforced shippers use defeat devices (that secretly pump pollution into the water rather than spew it in the air) or a second, weaker engine.

The shipping numbers are correct. Shipping is incredibly carbon-efficient at moving large amounts of freight. The pollution problem from shipping is not in the form of carbon emissions. It's in the form of oil spills, NO2, SO2, etc pollution, and it is difficult to accurately estimate. [1] On the other hand, estimating ship carbon emissions is easy - count how much bunker oil gets produced, world-wide, and assume all…

Yeah as my life cycle analysis friend says, "transportation is waste".

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#144

Post by timwaagh » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:10 PM UTC

gherkinnn wrote: post #58

groby_b wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no :) "On-demand" clothing manufacturing is practiced today, in that fashions change rapidly, and in response, retailers produce what can only be described as "shitty quality, fast". (Exacerbated by Chinese clothing manufacturers + social media - they're extremely effective at churning out extremely glossy pictures for what's about the lowest possible bar of quality) That - "fast fashion" - is what gets disca…

Now, if only bespoke shorts and tshirts became a thing. I’d happily pay a decent sum for a set of charcoal tshirts that fit me perfectly and last for a few years of daily use. Bonus points of I get to choose a fabric other than pure cotton.

Just take your tees to an (alterations) tailor if you want the perfect fit. They can do a lot. One problem though: your body changes.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#145

Post by hristov » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:10 PM UTC

This article has a bit of an underhanded motive. It pretends that is all pro environment but it comes out as an attack on fast fashion.

One can argue that fast fashion is bad for the environment. One can argue that it encourages people to throw away clothes, that fast fashion clothes are cheap and wear out very quickly, etc. But that does not have to be the case.

The ideal of fast fashion is that it is about putting clothes out in the stores and letting the customer decide what to wear and then quickly creating new designs based on customer demand, rather than the old system where the clothing industry would change collections only four times per year and more or less force the customer to like those collections based on a massive top down system of advertising, fashion magazines, models, movie stars, etc. A side effect of this system of making people like the new fashion is by bombarding with ads with beautiful people is that you also make people hate themselves.

So fast fashion does not necessarily have to be low quality or low durability. And having a large number of collections does not necessarily suggest low quality either. Personally I cannot say much about fast fashion darling ZARA, because nothing there fits me, but I wear a lot of GAP, Banana Republic and some Uniqlo, and those clothes have been generally quite durable.

That being said, if certain companies do make low quality clothes they should be called out.

To change the subject, one accurate thing about the article is about how bad plastic clothes are. In addition to being bad for the environment they just feel worse on your body. I would just avoid buying artificial fibers as much as practical.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#146

Post by timwaagh » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

std_throwaway wrote: post #28

Money spent = Emissions generated (direct or indirect by further spending) If you want to save CO2, then save as much money as you can in paper form. Don't spend, don't invest. Instead keep everything as cash. This also has indirect effects by slowing down the economy which reduces money flow for other people, too.

Indeed. We keep chasing our own tail. It's largely pointless.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#147

Post by chucksmash » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:17 PM UTC

hyperbovine wrote: post #90

TeMPOraL wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily wear a DS9 or First Contact era Starfleet uniform all day. They look great! :). Regarding your serious point, I'd like to know too. I'd pay for a service that would help me find a style that looks good on me, with associated supply of quality clothes in this style. My current clothing choice pattern is "random, with a pre-filtering done by my wife".

Sure they look great if you're a Hollywood actor who gets paid to do three hours of abs a day. There's a reason Kirk first donned the green tunic...

You may shock yourself with what three hours a week can do for you. After years of playing the "I'm smart, I'll just figure this out myself (finally, this year)" game with my fitness goals I outsourced the planning to a trainer and have been super happy with the progress I've made. I'm definitely in better shape with three hours a week of HIIT and strength training than I was as a six day a week gym rat in high school who was making it up as I went.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#148

Post by hristov » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

evolve2k wrote: post #39

Ecologically speaking maybe Steve Jobs/Star Trek respectively were onto something. A high quality minimal personal style that involves orders of magnitude less garment churn and waste with the added benefit of just not having to spend time on what to wear each day (insert pithy Jobs quote). But seriously if I was to explore finding a personal style that I could wear as my day to day work/life “uniform”, where to look…

It is very easy. For work you have the standard business casual. From bottom up it is black shoes (but not necessarily super shiny), black socks, slacks that are either black, grey, beige, or brown and a colorful checkered or striped button down shirt. Also, a belt. The shirt should be colorful but without too bright colors or contrasts. You can find the whole thing at banana republic. The good thing about this style is that if the pants are neutral color enough, you do not have to worry about matching shirt to pants.

For life outside of work, comfortable shoes and socks not necessarily black but subdued color, jeans and a button down shirt as well. Here the button down shirt may be of brighter colors or coarser materials, etc.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#149

Post by Xcelerate » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:37 PM UTC

evolve2k wrote: post #39

Ecologically speaking maybe Steve Jobs/Star Trek respectively were onto something. A high quality minimal personal style that involves orders of magnitude less garment churn and waste with the added benefit of just not having to spend time on what to wear each day (insert pithy Jobs quote). But seriously if I was to explore finding a personal style that I could wear as my day to day work/life “uniform”, where to look…

I wear jeans and a black T-shirt to work almost every single day. My wife makes fun of me and says I dress like a cartoon character, but for some reason it just removes a huge mental load knowing there is one less decision to make in the day.

Re: Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and maritime shipping combined

#150

Post by db48x » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 11:38 PM UTC

tito wrote: post #143

vkou wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shipping numbers are correct. Shipping is incredibly carbon-efficient at moving large amounts of freight. The pollution problem from shipping is not in the form of carbon emissions. It's in the form of oil spills, NO2, SO2, etc pollution, and it is difficult to accurately estimate. [1] On the other hand, estimating ship carbon emissions is easy - count how much bunker oil gets produced, world-wide, and assume all…

Yeah as my life cycle analysis friend says, "transportation is waste".

Not always waste. There are some important collections of atoms that you would prefer to move whole from one place to another, rather than creating new ones on site. Especially since it takes 18 years or more to do!

Other than that, I agree. Home nanotech for everyone!