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Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

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Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#191

A key problem with the complaints is that customer reviews don't† take into account the effect of commingling. The expired food might have come from a different seller initially, but you were sent it because of Amazon's supply line optimisations. Amazon will know but when you write your review or read someone else's, you won't. Same problem as counterfeit goods and commingling though iirc there are more control in pl…

Are Amazon comingling foods? Wouldn't that make them responsible for the expiry dates? And a whole lot of other things to boot?

Is it possible that this is just a stupid, simple sorting bug in the warehouse software?

As a battle scarred developer, I'm primed to think about issues like some algorithm decided LIFA was faster than FIFO, and it's worth my time to investigate whether my coworker didn't differentiate between perishable and non-perishable because they were so pleased with their shortest route algorithm that they couldn't be bothered by trivialities like reality and biology. They'll probably even blame it on their boss instead of on avoiding confrontation.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but does commingling mean they can't trace it back to which seller sent it to them for FBA? If they can, they can penalize that seller... Correct, they can't trace it, so they can't penalize. > I'm assuming Amazon has a unique id for every individual item in their warehouses. They don't. If they did, there would be some kind of unique bar code on every item you received from Amazon.

Commingling (in this context) doesn't necessarily mean that the products are literally sitting in the same bin as the same product from another seller. Each seller's items could be kept in separate bins if put in the same warehouse. Then when one of that product is ordered, the picker is told to go to a specific bin to get it. Amazon would then still know which seller's product they sold you. The actual advantage of…

Yeah I'm struggling with the notion of why commingling prevents audit trails. You don't even have to use separate bins for audits, although I admit that makes it pretty trivial. You just need a label.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#193
post #108
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear stories like that and question innocence of the protestor. I know sometimes people get screwed over for no reason but I’m also aware of numerous cases where someone loudly protests the unfairness of being blocked for a single unintentional infraction and upon further review it turns out they had a history of abuse, sometimes with a secondary account that they assumed BigCo was too stupid to link to their “real…

There's a cottage industry of this in HN, where someone posts a blog complainings about BigCo destroying their small business, getting hundreds of upvotes and comments, and then it turns out, every time, that oops their software developement was outsourced to a developer who is a known serial spammer or scammer, and it's "not fair" because mom&pop can't know that they hired a criminal so BigCo shouldn't blame them.

Every time? I don't think so.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#194
post #92

If you know anything about Amazon, if you know what commingling means, or if you spend 5 minutes reading about this company you will steer well clear for baby formula, food, electronics, or anything else safety related. Stick to using Amazon for books, DVDs, and knickknacks. Target.com or Walmart.com will give you the same price as Amazon, with slightly slower shipping, and no Russian Roulette with counterfeiters.

Walmart uses resellers and I’ve had problems with them recently.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#195
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Commingling isn't a problem with the complaints. I think they mean that commingling necessarily eliminates the viability of merchant malfeasance analysis in reading reviews, not that the complainers did anything wrong. Just that you can't trust the products from even the most trustworthy shop because someone _else_ might be trying to cheat the marketplace. The review system applies to products, but mostly it applie…

Skip the spider. Big table. Borg. "Merchant malfeasance analysis" is simple. Amazon is the merchant. The other view is bullshit. Well promoted bullshit. But bullshit nevertheless.

Um, have you recently eaten something purchased from Amazon?

The previous poster clearly means that it is bad that negative reviews can't effectively convey information to consumers on Amazon. I'm sure they don't mean to defend Amazon or suggest that it is not culpable.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Amazon comingling foods? Wouldn't that make them responsible for the expiry dates? And a whole lot of other things to boot?

Is it possible that this is just a stupid, simple sorting bug in the warehouse software? As a battle scarred developer, I'm primed to think about issues like some algorithm decided LIFA was faster than FIFO, and it's worth my time to investigate whether my coworker didn't differentiate between perishable and non-perishable because they were so pleased with their shortest route algorithm that they couldn't be bothered…

It's more likely that they have bins of stuff, and the pickers just grab whatever they grab without regard for first/last in/out.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#197
post #190
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inventory isn’t commingled between sellers for the same SKU.

I don’t know why I’m being downvoted - Amazon FBA does not commingle seller inventory. The products sold by a seller are only the ones they shipped to FBA. If you request your inventory back, you will only get the ones back you sell. So if a seller sends in a bunch of counterfeit items for a listing, those are physically separated and don’t get mixed with the good inventory that is there. There are multiple sellers f…

I think you’re being downvoted because what you state is contrary to what most people have heard: i.e. that inventory for the same SKU from different sellers is in fact commingled. You might want to provide some citations if you want to convince people otherwise.

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#198
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Commingling isn't a problem with the complaints. I think they mean that commingling necessarily eliminates the viability of merchant malfeasance analysis in reading reviews, not that the complainers did anything wrong. Just that you can't trust the products from even the most trustworthy shop because someone _else_ might be trying to cheat the marketplace. The review system applies to products, but mostly it applie…

Skip the spider. Big table. Borg. "Merchant malfeasance analysis" is simple. Amazon is the merchant. The other view is bullshit. Well promoted bullshit. But bullshit nevertheless.

I'm going to take a stab at this.

>Skip the spider.

Maybe an exhortation to not think of being a customer of Amazon like being a spider in a web. Spiders know where the next meal is by vibrations in the fabric of the web, which if we imagine the negative comments as vibrations caused the receipt of a skeevy item from a seller in the network as a naieve attempt to track a skeevy supplier, we're not going to get what we want due to the comingling problem.

>Big Table. Instead, you have to think of Amazon as a big frickin' table onto which everyone throws their stuff. Amazon is basically the de facto merchant in all cases where fulfillment by Amazon is used. Since they bin by item, and not item/source, you get an assimilation going on.

>Borg: Essentially, Amazon is this. They absorb all the uniqueness of all of their suppliers, and essentially dissolve/absolve any particular supplier of singular skeevyness since all the skeevy gets laundered through FBA. Even if you have mostly upstanding sellers, the smaller populations of skeevy sellers benefit, because their fulfillment when picked have a high probability of being good, while the upstanding vendors are guaranteed to eventually eat negative reputation from skeevy merch being used to fulfill their orders.

>Merchant malfeasance analysis is simple: It actually is. You just separate out each source's inventory and track fulfillment from that inventory. Easy-peezy from a data point of view, but incompatible with real world physical constraints. The physics of the matter would be way too infeasible to implement, since there would need to X^n physical buckets where X is the number of items, and n is the number of suppliers of that item. If you were to track every type of item in clearly separated sub inventories keyed by source. That just wouldn't be physically or fiscally possible, because now Amazon needs pickers not just for stuff, but for supplier's of stuff. Suddenly, Amazon is open to potential complaints on relative picker staffing between suppliers, even if you somehow managed to handwave away the physical space requirements.

>The other view is Bullshit. The other view being that the Amazon marketplace backed by FBA allows for any type of reputation based curation. While the marketing team pounds that drum, it won't work in a world with limited physical space, as explained above.

Did I get it right?

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#199

A key problem with the complaints is that customer reviews don't† take into account the effect of commingling. The expired food might have come from a different seller initially, but you were sent it because of Amazon's supply line optimisations. Amazon will know but when you write your review or read someone else's, you won't. Same problem as counterfeit goods and commingling though iirc there are more control in pl…

Products that expire are not eligible for commingling, period. See https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480

Re: Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

#200

A key problem with the complaints is that customer reviews don't† take into account the effect of commingling. The expired food might have come from a different seller initially, but you were sent it because of Amazon's supply line optimisations. Amazon will know but when you write your review or read someone else's, you won't. Same problem as counterfeit goods and commingling though iirc there are more control in pl…

Commingling isn't a problem with the complaints. Commingling reflects a deliberate profit motivated decision at the highest level of Amazon's management. Amazon executives have evaluated the health risks of commingling food. The safety risks of commingling electronics. They've calculated it more profitable to lawyer up when bad things happen.

There's no commingling for food or any other products with expiration dates.
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