Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…
Union busting and retaliation against unionisation efforts is prohibited in most (all?) EU countries. Of course in practice not always easy to prove.
Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
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Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't take that claim too seriously, because a real Libertarian would welcome a free, and non-coercive association between employees as much as they welcome the free, and completely non-coercive association between an employee, and their employer... (I am, of course, not at all coerced to work under the conditions my employer sets upon me!) But for some reason, many Libertarians have nothing but contempt for the fo…
This hypothetical “real libertarian” would welcome far more than that, and most of it not for the benefit of workers. I’m simply stating it’s foolish to expect Google to actively work against their best interests. To provide material support and a platform for unopposed speech on a viewpoint they actively oppose. There’s nothing stopping these employees from doing this on their own free time and with their own resour…
I think you're indulging in reification here. Google has no best interests because Google is just a legal fiction with no real-world existence apart from its constituent individuals. The investors have their interests. Management has their interests. The workers have their interests. But Google itself has no interests, and for too long we've conflated the interests of Google's management and investors with those of the company as a whole while disregarding those of the vast majority of the people associated with Google: the workers whose work makes Google's billions in revenue possible while getting pennies on every dollar of value they provide.
> To provide material support and a platform for unopposed speech on a viewpoint they actively oppose.
Management has no business having an opinion on unionization one way or the other. If anything, most managers should be pro-union since they're as likely to get thrown under the bus to keep profits up as their direct reports.
> There’s nothing stopping these employees from doing this on their own free time and with their own resources.
From an opsec viewpoint, the smart thing to do would be to organize outside Google offices and then blindside the company with a wildcat strike, but that's easier said than done when you're expected to work twelve hours a day to prove you're passionate.
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#73I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#74Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work. If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO. I also feel that it is high time engineers realized t…
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
More than half of Swiss workers are covered by collective bargaining agreements. That's much higher than in the US at least; not sure about France/Germany.
Are the mechanics the same in Europe and the US? For example, in Italy most people have a contract which follows the collective agreement obtained by the unions for that specific sector (i.e. commerce, textile worker, metal worker etc) even if people are not part of any union. If you are a member of the Union you may get some extra legal help or such, but not a different contract. From what US people say it seems ins…
Not really. Because of the way labor laws work in the US, the unions seek exclusive representation over members within a bargaining unit, which means that all employees within the bargaining unit are members of the union as soon as 51% of the bargaining unit votes in favor of the union. That precludes the possibility of employees having the choice between two different unions to represent them (or none at all), which is common in most European countries.
It's pretty rare to have union and non-union members working in the same role (as opposed to at the same company, or at the same jobsite but under different employers), and even less common to have two people in the same role represented by two different unions.
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait until you find out how far the pay of those rich assholes goes when you spread it around! There are good arguments to be made for unionization. That some people make more - sometimes substantially more - isn't always one of them. Certainly trying to stoke anger might not always be the best of all available ways to win over people trying to be thoughtful.
> Wait until you find out how far the pay of those rich assholes goes when you spread it around! Like by raising wages? How else would you spread it around? > That some people make more - sometimes substantially more - isn't always one of them. Read marx. Or chomsky.
You'll have to pardon me if I'm reluctant to take my economics lessons from a linguist.
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#77I think Google heavily needs to be split up.
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#78I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#79I'm a SWE at Google, and as much as I love unions, I'm not sure it makes sense for the software industry. Further, the larger tech companies already have a concept of "levels" to ensure some sense of pay equality, we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Realistically, what more will unions accomplish at a place like Google? I'd love 6 weeks of paid vacation as much as anyone. I do…
> we already get better benefits than you can get anywhere else in the states. Wait until you hear how well the rich assholes that profit off your work live.
Re: Google attempted to shut down a unionization meeting in Zurich
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Union busting and retaliation against unionisation efforts is prohibited in most (all?) EU countries. Of course in practice not always easy to prove.
Switzerland is not in the EU.
Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else.
OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is baseless with the general perception that things are better in EU.