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The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

technologyreview.com

181–190 of 356 posts

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#181

i find the chance argument very compelling, but there's another factor which to my knowledge the OP researchers didn't investigate: ethics. the richest people i know (with wealth in the 10M range) are the most amoral in their thoughts and actions, and it makes a big difference financially. note that i said amoral, not immoral; they aren't malicious, they simply don't care. they don't refuse a business opportunity bec…

From my experience this is definitely true. Also our financial system is incredibly forgiving when it comes to unethical behavior.

For example, if you take a massive loan and then it doesn't work out, you can just declare bankrupcy, then you just wait a few years and you can start again. You can change country, then you get a clean credit history and you can try again.

You could borrow some money from the bank, bet it all on a coin toss; if you win, you can retire, if you lose, you just need to wait a few years then try again. If you do it enough times, it's very likely that you will win and retire within your lifetime.

The real losers of our society are all the honest, hard working people who are not prepared to gamble with other people's money. This is what loans are; loans expand the money supply - So when someone makes a reckless bet and they go bankrupt, it's as if everyone else was paying for that person.

Then we're surprised why the greediest and most reckless people win...

The system is not fair. Rich people already know this but it doesn't matter because they are not the ones who keep the engines of capitalism turning. So long as the majority of people believe that the system is fair, the engine will keep on running and becoming progressively less fair.

Rich people don't care about what is fair or ethical, they will do anything and say anything to get more money. Regular people are different. For example, most regular people would probably vote against a referendum to seize and nationalize all corporations with a market cap of above $1 billion... Even though such nationalization would almost certainly benefit them personally. Rich people, on the other hand, don't need any kind of justification or moral argument in order to take someone else's money; if they can do it, they will do it; simple as that. If all regular people had the mindset of rich people, we would be living in anarchy; there would be no government, only mafias and we would be killing each other over resources (of which there would be very little since we'd be spending most of our time and energy scheming and killing each other instead of creating value).

But the reality is that the rich have managed to create a society in which most people can be reared, prodded and milked like cattle under an obviously false pretext that they are the ones creating all the value.

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, 2, 3 and 4 can be reduced to 1. You don't choose your genes or where you are born. Those factors, which are blind luck, determine all of the other lucks for your whole life. In the end, everything is just blind luck, but our egos want to feel like they are in control somehow.

Seems like this is a free will argument. In a reductionist view, yes, everything is all blind luck because the universe was set in motion at the Big Bang and has evolved according to the laws of physics since. If you got rich through intelligence, determination, and good choices, that was still luck because your intelligence and determination are largely determined by your genes and your choices by your environment,…

> This argument may be true but it isn't very useful

It's useful to some in the sense of justifying the taking and redistribution of the outcomes from whatever mix of luck, skill, and labor went into the creation of wealth.

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#183

I was surprised to see this article have no mention of privilege that many people experience. Certainly if you grow up in a rich family, you have opportunities available to you that others do not. There are also privileges associated with race and gender among other things that certainly impact one's likelihood of becoming rich.

Not trying to pick your response out in particular,but when we talk about growing up in a rich family, what type of rich family are we talking about? It feels like a lot of time with topics like this, we're using Bill Gates as the example of being rich. Isn't that a little off the mark? I had a bunch of friends from "rich" families growing up through high school. Most are lazy pieces of shit that haven't gotten anywhere close to achieving what their parents have. There are a few exceptions, but it is definitely below 50%. I see this all the time at work. Want to guess who the laziest employees are? The people who didn't have a job till after graduating college and came from families that didn't have much of a want for money. They stagnate. The kids who grew up struggling have largely continued to out work the others and their career progress has showed as much. The same goes for people I know who have inherited enough money to where inheritance tax comes in. When we talk about inheritance, are we talking about someone like this, or one of the few legitimate dynasties that still exist? If the former, a large percent will burn through their money within a short amount of time. There is a reason that generational wealth typically doesn't last that many generations. Again, if we're talking about someone like the Rothschild, then yeah, it is a bit different.

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#185
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. They are all smart. Not everyone chooses to apply for a job at Google.

That's a heck of a bubble then! Usually the choice isn't the bottleneck for mere mortals like the people I went to undergrad with.

I think it's pretty typical for schools like CMU. Look at their post graduation survey: https://www.cmu.edu/career/documents/2018_one_pagers/scs/1-P...

Out of 170 graduates, 27 went to facebook, 21 went to google, 13 went to microsoft, 6 went to amazon, 2 went to apple, etc. That's basically half the class including a lot of people from the bottom half of the class (the best people I knew usually didn't choose FAAMG and their outcomes were a crapshoot).

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#186
post #14

Perhaps it is stupid to want to be rich? Few people are stupid enough to take the chance, so a few rich people are no thread to the mental health of society at large. Whowhat?

I'm being totally serious: The more I learn about riches & fame, the less I want them. I'll be honest: I'm not quite to the point where if someone tried to thrust a million dollars into my hand, I'd say no. (That isn't even necessarily enough to take you out of "middle class" anymore as a one-off payment, honestly.) But I think I'd say no to 10 million and I'm fairly certain I'd say no to 100 million. Or really wish…

[deleted]

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#187

Watch a survival documentary. 10 contestants, many battle-hardened. The conclusion after watching 5 seasons of "Alone" is -- its all luck. The fittest didn't win, it was the person who happened to be dropped off in a relatively safe area, with access to resources, and had some good luck day to day. The people who randomly dropped into areas filled with predators or hazards, they were forced out (despite many being ha…

I think I watched a few episodes of that with my father-in-law and all I remember is that several of the contestants spent the first 8 hours or so building shelter (and if I recall correctly is was summer, so freezing was not an issue) and only then started to think about finding food. If they had any trouble at all finding food (which basically everyone did), then pretty soon they were too weak to continue searching for food because all of the physical activity had caused them to burn far too many calories for their meager food intake.

The people who had a lot of experience hunting and fishing tended to know how long it would take them to find food and went about it with much more urgency.

I do remember bad luck striking as well for sure, but it seemed like strategy was at least as big of a factor as luck for many of the contestants.

I agree that no matter how hard your will, you can't make it past certain things, but a lot of contestants hamstrung themselves right off the bat by badly underestimating how many calories they would need or not accurately predicting which sorts of problems would instantly end their bid.

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#188
post #130

True, but you can't be lucky if you don't roll the dice, and some people roll the dice more than others.

In life, you really don’t get to choose not to roll the dice, because there’s risk in everything including doing nothing.

You absolutely get to choose not to roll the dice, by staying at home, by not starting that company, by not pursuing that guy/girl, by not interviewing with that company, by generally refusing to put yourself out there and see what happens.

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#189
I chased the dollar and lost my wife and Pomeranian in a divorce :( I was rich, but never realized that love and companionship is worth more in the long term than money. I would give a billion dollars to wake up with my wife in my arms and that little dude licking my face.

Re: The most successful people are just the luckiest, a new computer model confirms

#190
They seem to have a flawed core assumption – that everyone is hell-bent on maximizing their personal wealth. In other words, every person will dedicate their entire intellect toward the goal of making money. This doesn't really match up with reality (thank goodness).
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