BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers • Hacker News Board

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#111

Post by CivBase » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #63

CivBase wrote: post #50

IMO, Blizzards actions have been borderline incompetent. I completely understand them not wanting their platform to be used to make political statements. This isn't like the NBA situation where Morey used a private social media account to show support for his private political opiniona. This was a platform owned by Blizzard with a very specific content focus. But banning Blitzchung for any amount of time was just dum…

> "We encourage players and community members to express themselves. However, our tournament coverage is a platform for Blizzard e-sports content only. Any future use of the platform to express personal political opinions on sensitive subject matter without Blizzard's express conscent will be met with punative action." How about let people say what they want and let the public judge by themselves? Is that so hard to…

I don't know about you, but I don't want every entertainment platform to be consumed by political discussion. Sometimes you just want an escape and that's something video games help provide.

Those discussions are worth having but there are already plenty of platforms available to have them on.

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#112

Post by falcolas » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

deminature wrote: post #101

falcolas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blizzard does not release player numbers, but as a public company, they do release their financials. Per Activision Blizzard's investor calls, approximately 10% of their total revenue is from China. So, with a profit margin of 25% and profits in the billions, Activision Blizzard is not going to go bankrupt even should they lose all their Chinese income.

Would you be impressed as a stockholder of a company that experiences a 10% reduction in revenue, voluntarily through an avoidable action?

If the action is in support of morals I (and much of the US) believe in, absolutely.

Money is not everything. I think it's a shame that so many are willing to support a company who will ditch their morals for just a bit more profit.

EDIT: This isn't just a hypothetical either, ATVI is on a blacklist of stock that I will not purchase. I hope others will do the same.

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#113

Post by hermitdev » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #110

ericol wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point; but I don't think Blizzard actions would had been this strong on any other similar situation (Say, Blitzchung supporting the Catalonian separatists). All evidence seems to indicate Blizzard acted this way because China.

Blizzard could have kicked him out of the tournament and said "don't use our platform for controversy" and probably nothing would have happened. Instead they stripped him of his winnings, banned him for a year, and then release two public statements one in English that was bad enough, and another in Chinese that absolutely prostrated themselves before the Mainland government. It was pathetic.

Blizzard has since reinstated his winnings and reduced the ban to 6 months.

> Blizzard originally banned the Hong Kong-based player for a year and withheld his prize money after he said "Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our age!" in Chinese during the livestreamed event. That penalty was later reduced to a six-month suspension, and Chung's prize money was reinstated

Second paragraph in https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/10/us-legislators-urge-b...

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#114

Post by Beltiras » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #107

Beltiras wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still on the fence. I'm still boycotting. I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take.

You've "come around" to that position? Are you suggesting that the baseline isn't that position? No one is suggesting Blizzard is irredeemable, it's just very unlikely, given Blizzard's past behavior, that they're going to take the necessary steps to fix this. Honestly, what the heck are you even talking about? You sound like someone who is actively trying to misrepresent the situation...

I actually started out thinking Blizzard could do nothing to redeem themselves. What level of action would make me believe they could be a trusted honest actor on the cultural stage given the capitulation to CCP interest?

I cancelled my WoW subscription and uninstalled all their games, quit following the streamers that produced content for Blizz games and started speaking out on social media against them.

Their actions felt like betrayal of values I hold very dear. I'm active in politics locally and donate time to the Pirates (lucky enough to live in Iceland where they actually have made a huge difference).

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#115

Post by Iv » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #90

My son-in-law has lived in China and confronted me about my boycott. His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. No other gaming company has the breadth of socially reformative messaging contained in WoW, Overwatch et.al. Should Blizz perform corporate harakiri by appeasing the angry SJW (not spoken derisively) in the West, the CCP would have no pr…

This is how modern censorship works: let people have some limited margin, some limited freedom of speech when they only talk to friends or to groups of 4-5 people. Monitor them though. Do not believe for one second that Blizzard does not handle all the chat logs to the CCP.

Regular censorship must only happen when it matters: when millions are watching. This is when you strike hard and uncompromisingly.

Shutting down Blizzard in China would be a punishment the CCP handles to its citizens, and a proof to the world that it is not ready to be part of the international culture. It comes with a cost as well. Dare them to do it.

> I stood firm and maintained that CCP was now fighting with plutocracy > for changes to the culture in the west.

I totally agree and this is a very strong red line to me. I reluctantly agree that it is best that each country does not meddle too much into the national policies of each other, but if China starts to push for universality of their values, we need to stop being shy at pushing back ours.

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#116

Post by ericol » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

I think that's the ruling party way of things: They usually try to obliterate into particles whoever dares to oppose them. Or whoever crosses their path; or whoever they don't like for whatever reason. Just take a look at the Uyghurs situation.

* edited because it seems people where taking offence on I miss using the word Chinese instead of "ruling party", that is actually what I meant.

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#117

Post by SamReidHughes » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #93

Pfhreak wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large contingent of people who don't want corporations at Pride. But there's also the reasonable view that 'woke for the money' corporations are still better than not woke corporations. It's challenging to work through what's best, especially when the employees of a business might hold stronger views than their employer.

There's also "woke for the talent", which in the current skill economy is non-negligible. If you're having a hard time finding international software developers to work for you because you're sponsoring US border militias (to use a ridiculous example), then you're materially hurting your bottom line via political speech. And while that's an example of active speech, there are similar examples of lack-of-speech. E.g.…

On the other hand, ICE contracts scaring away open borders job-hunters means less trouble with unionization efforts in the future.

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#118

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #115

Beltiras wrote: post #90

My son-in-law has lived in China and confronted me about my boycott. His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. No other gaming company has the breadth of socially reformative messaging contained in WoW, Overwatch et.al. Should Blizz perform corporate harakiri by appeasing the angry SJW (not spoken derisively) in the West, the CCP would have no pr…

This is how modern censorship works: let people have some limited margin, some limited freedom of speech when they only talk to friends or to groups of 4-5 people. Monitor them though. Do not believe for one second that Blizzard does not handle all the chat logs to the CCP. Regular censorship must only happen when it matters: when millions are watching. This is when you strike hard and uncompromisingly. Shutting down…

[deleted]

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#119

Post by cm2012 » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:47 PM UTC

Blizzard is more vulnerable to financial boycotts than other companies:

1) Their product is only used for fun. 2) They have subscription products that aren't used all the time, and thus easy to cancel if someone is reminded they have it.

I would be surprised if their next quarters earnings projections didnt take a nose dive.

Re: BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

#120

Post by falcolas » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

ericol wrote: post #116

I think that's the ruling party way of things: They usually try to obliterate into particles whoever dares to oppose them. Or whoever crosses their path; or whoever they don't like for whatever reason. Just take a look at the Uyghurs situation. * edited because it seems people where taking offence on I miss using the word Chinese instead of "ruling party", that is actually what I meant.

How did their idiom go?

"We'll grind you up and crush your bones."

Sure, it is just an idiom, but it speaks to the thoroughness of their punishments.

EDIT: This is a direct, and recent, quote from Xí Jìnpíng when discussing (with foreign leaders) how the Chinese government will treat anyone who tries to split or sew dissent in China.