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To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

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Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#191

Post by pheug »

jonny383 wrote: post #188
pheug wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe mostly applies to smaller companies or niche domains. FAANG hiring is much more formalized and your connections hardly matter beyond getting invited for an interview.

I would love some examples of big technology companies that have hired someone into upper management that didn't already have some kind of industry or common connection.

Don't know about upper management, that's a whole different game at these giant companies. But low and middle managers get hired all the time without a personal connection, especially if coming from a different FAANG. Industry experience in a similar role is still a prerequisite of course, i.e you're unlikely to get hired as a manager if you weren't managing or a team lead before.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#192

Post by PeterStuer »

dominicr wrote: post #179
PeterStuer wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind a sidequestion: I have worked with and met with probably close to 100 start/scale-up companies in the software domain. I have not yet met a 'brogammer' shop. Some hipster dens, and yes, when the founder is a twenty something you will be hard pressed to find anyone over 30. So is this 'brogrammer frathouse' a regional thing? Or is it maybe a B2C thing as I mostly work with B2B companies?

I'm no expert and I've mostly been in Europe with marginal time in the US, so I don't know the frequency of occurrence. I think what's slightly more common is homogenous teams within companies that form an overwhelming culture, rather than entire company cultures. Teams do form their own ways of working and their own cultures, and this is fine: it's human and it can be positive. Healthy teams adapt to new members and…

So is "frat house full of brogrammers" just a meme then? I have always wondered since I first heard the term, as it seems so remote from the reality I experience.

And yet, it gets punted around so much you wouldn't think that it would be hard to find a brogrammer shop. On the contrary, going by the 'reputation' you'd think they would be so numerous as to almost be hard to avoid.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#193

Post by PeterStuer »

otaviokz wrote: post #178
stared wrote: post #7

As an Aspie/ADD, I have never passed any formal interview, even for an intern position (sic!). (You can compare and contrast it with my GitHub/Resume/blog to make a judgment.) Fortunately, many times (even for mid-size companies or research institutes) the hiring was less formal. For small startups, where it is informal, I didn't feel at a disadvantage. For big, I don't believe I can pass through the first filter. It…

As a slightly above average dev in London (and I mean it), I feel that for many big companies the interview process always achieve on thing: to avoid hiring anyone who could really transform it for the better.

That is because in a large company you are hired to support the fiefdom of a manager that wants to claw to the top in the existing structure, not 'transform it for the better'.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#194

Post by nightcracker »

romwell wrote: post #162
leadingthenet wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture is something you have a certain amount of control over. Age/sex/w/e isn't.

Exactly, and the way the parent didn't seem to fit into the 'culture' was by being older . "Frathouse culture" is an euphemism for "group of mostly white young male people who exclude people who aren't like them" - because this is what fraternities literally are . (Recall: by definition, fraternities are young, male, exclusive - and statistically, white).

It's not (only) statistically white, it is racism inherent in the language we use. A black fraternity is called a gang instead.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#195

Post by RivieraKid »

karmakaze wrote: post #42
core-questions wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've heard it so many times about people interviewing others, as "(s)he is smart, passed all test, but weird, I don't like to work with her/him". At this point, it is systemic discrimination. No, that's a misnomer. Systematic discrimination implies the system itself codifies this behaviour - but instead, what is codified is _team fit_, which is often based heavily on intuition. Humans are capable of being good judg…

How is "team fit" different from "culture fit" which basically means acts/talks/works "like me" and without explicitness can produce a discriminatory monoculture?

"Team fit" mostly means social skills.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#196

Post by scarejunba »

dominicr wrote: post #138
Leherenn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this dismissing about "culture fit". You describe it yourself as a frat house, which, I assume from the rest of your post, is not what you want. Work is not always only about output and skills, especially in a small company run by 20-something whose only social life is their colleagues. It says nothing about your skills, just that both sides would probably be miserable in case you were hired…

I think the point is that companies shouldn't be frat houses full of brogrammers. If you want to hang out with your friends and wrestle to decide coding patterns, then that's all well and good. But the second that it becomes a company that employs people it should be more mature, equal and accepting. Work is indeed not always only about output and skills, it's also about respecting each other and collaborating with d…

Well, if you're one of first five then it's practically like joining a band and the idea that you wouldn't discriminate in making your band is outrageous. Like if someone sued because they're a fine enough drummer but the band didn't really feel like jamming with them, they'd look kinda dumb.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#197

Post by hombre_fatal »

WillDaSilva wrote: post #80
shadowmore wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ingrained misogyny was so common Was? I wouldn't call it misogyny, because it isn't out of hate but out of the unique social dynamics between genders, but absolutely nothing has changed except one thing: it's now politically incorrect and against the rules to actually say what you think/feel, so everyone hides it. Men and women still don't work well together. The attraction dynamics between them still overpower any…

> Men and women still don't work well together Citations needed. I've never had any issues working with women, nor have I heard any coworkers or friends express this belief, or raise issues about working with members of the opposite gender. I don't think people aren't talking about this because it's "politically incorrect", but rather because most people (at least in Canada) simply don't have any issues working with…

The fact that there are so many issues in the workplace in the news / personal accounts and the fact that men and women have only been working together for a relatively short time clearly indicate to me that the jury is still out on whether men and women can truly work together and that it's best that way.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#198

Post by antihero »

otaviokz wrote: post #178
stared wrote: post #7

As an Aspie/ADD, I have never passed any formal interview, even for an intern position (sic!). (You can compare and contrast it with my GitHub/Resume/blog to make a judgment.) Fortunately, many times (even for mid-size companies or research institutes) the hiring was less formal. For small startups, where it is informal, I didn't feel at a disadvantage. For big, I don't believe I can pass through the first filter. It…

As a slightly above average dev in London (and I mean it), I feel that for many big companies the interview process always achieve on thing: to avoid hiring anyone who could really transform it for the better.

IDK, I'm an extrovert and a senior developer, I've had mostly positive experiences with interviews, but I think you have to give people the hope that you're the person that is going to be able to make things better.

I think except in the worst circumstances, people can be worked with positively and if you bring a certain energy to the workplace you can bring people around to your way of thinking and bring out their passion.

Some people will dead weight no matter what, but they can be identified and let go.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#199

Post by scarejunba »

otaviokz wrote: post #178
stared wrote: post #7

As an Aspie/ADD, I have never passed any formal interview, even for an intern position (sic!). (You can compare and contrast it with my GitHub/Resume/blog to make a judgment.) Fortunately, many times (even for mid-size companies or research institutes) the hiring was less formal. For small startups, where it is informal, I didn't feel at a disadvantage. For big, I don't believe I can pass through the first filter. It…

As a slightly above average dev in London (and I mean it), I feel that for many big companies the interview process always achieve on thing: to avoid hiring anyone who could really transform it for the better.

The UK and EU (well, France is my experience) did seem that way a lot. US companies are way better.
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