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Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

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Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#171

Post by dang »

throwaway981211 wrote: post #31
baby wrote: post #20

I think that is misdirection. There are two parts that I don't think are contradicted by this article: 1) Facebook, twitter, and other social networks give people a voice and a community. 2) If these platforms are censored in a country, it has a great effect on free speech in the country. Now, there are some good questions related to the article to ask here: a) Are these platforms actually a problem because of the am…

I’m not sure these platforms provide voice or community vs providing an avenue for those with large pockets to shape and influence opinions, on a far more personal level than before, thanks to big data and things like targeted ads. Not an accusation but do you work for FB? I spoke to someone recently who does and they said something very similar to what you wrote. Not saying you two are the same person, but is this o…

This comment breaks the site guidelines. Please don't do that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#172

Post by vanderZwan »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #167

Meh, I don't really see that much outrage on my feed, just family pics, vacation pics, some memes, news from a few news outlets that I follow. People are way overreacting.

You don't represent everyone. I don't see much outrage either, but I have heavily curated my feed list to get there.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#173

Post by cameldrv »

littlestymaar wrote: post #127
bhupy wrote: post #69

Any form of media that earns its profit from viewership and selling advertising, including broadcast and cable news and news radio, is optimized for outrage. That's what attracts the eyeballs. The "algorithmic" part is irrelevant.

I agree with you, but the “algorithmic” just takes it to another level: instead of having a few channels targeted toward a bunch of groups, the targeting is at the individual level.

The algorithmic part has no shame. If you're a newspaper editor and you put you put a false or misleading or unseemly story on the front page, you're responsible for it.

When the algorithm does it, it's just maximizing revenue, and there is no one to blame except the programmer that made the algorithm, who after all, just told the computer to do what the stockholders would want.

Ultimately optimizing anything solely to maximize profit is inhuman. We all have standards and values that we carry with us to work that go beyond just maximizing profit. Those are more difficult to encode in an algorithm. Without them though, the relationship of the user to the platform is exploitative. The platform does not care about the user except in a purely instrumental way. You are doing business with a psychopath.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#174

Post by tripzilch »

" ... but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Sure Facebook makes it worse, but the whole American cultural idea of free speech itself is already optimized for outrage.

Every single discussion about free speech I see Americans gloat and pride themselves over specifically defending the most offensive types of free speech, because, just like self-flagellation, it shows of dedication to the cause (in spite of common sense or decency).

I'll never forget the time when some extremist religious cooks wanted to bully the funerals of gay US soldiers, and the entire fucking country came to the defence of the bullies' right to freedom of harassment (I mean, speech), instead of the grieving families.

Yeah that story is a bit old, but the cultural phenomenon hasn't changed a bit. This was just the first time that I realized (again) that the blind acceptance of anything as a fundamental truth (or right) is dumb as hell when you take it to the logical extreme.

The more outrageous the type of speech is, the more vehemently Americans will defend it, which they see as a point of pride.

And it is this culture that built the world's largest social network platforms, so you'll see this behaviour reflect there. It also just happens these platforms are particularly fertile ground to both these types of behaviour, so the entire problem gets broadcast, amplified and generally just worse.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#175

Post by Porthos9K »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #165
Porthos9K wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Supercilious tone of this post aside (it's straight out of /r/iamverysmart), isn't it pretty contemptuous to lump in Facebook's social media and chat offerings with MIT-licensed React?

Yes, and I think I am justified in doing so. React and JSX are everything shitty about pre-CSS web development, but with more JavaScript. Even if it wasn't Facebook tech I would still refuse to work with that shit.

Oh, and if you want supercilious, duck into the little nerd's room and get a good look at your tone-policing ass in a mirror.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#176

Post by EForEndeavour »

Porthos9K wrote: post #175
EForEndeavour wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercilious tone of this post aside (it's straight out of /r/iamverysmart), isn't it pretty contemptuous to lump in Facebook's social media and chat offerings with MIT-licensed React?

Yes, and I think I am justified in doing so. React and JSX are everything shitty about pre-CSS web development, but with more JavaScript. Even if it wasn't Facebook tech I would still refuse to work with that shit. Oh, and if you want supercilious, duck into the little nerd's room and get a good look at your tone-policing ass in a mirror.

Thanks for your reply. Your first comment implied that you looked down on users of all Facebook products, whether Facebook itself or WhatsApp or React. I find this attitude silly, since a proprietary social-media platform, messaging app, and MIT-licensed web UI library are very different beasts. But now it seems you aren't even categorically against Facebook, just against people who use social media but also React for unrelated reasons...? That makes no sense.

Ironically, I can't even see your original post anymore because it's since been flagged. If that happened by the time you wrote your reply, I guess I understand your sensitivity against tone-policing.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#177

Post by marcosdumay »

baby wrote: post #137
marcosdumay wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook, twitter, and other social networks give people a voice and a community. No, it doesn't. That the point. It gives people a some of curated information subset from what people they know is saying, probably out of context, and heavily biased. That's not a community, because it's not made of whole people. They also give voice to some of your thoughts that they decide they want to. That's not voice, or at leas…

> No, it doesn't I'm part of several communities in both Facebook and Twitter, so I fail to see your point. This is actually why most people use Facebook/Twitter nowadays.

It's not you talking on those communities. It's an impersonation of you by Facebook, with as much fidelity to the real you as Facebook deems necessary. The same applies to all the "people" you interact with there.
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