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To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

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Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#11
post #3

> Instead of using CVs and interviews, potential employees undergo a basic competency assessment in which they are evaluated against 25 desirable attributes for software testers, such as the ability to learn new systems or take on feedback. Following these initial tests, potential staff undergo a week of working from home fully paid. They still have an interview. It just isn’t like a traditional interview. You need t…

I had a law school exam in one course that was take home.

Everyone thought it was a great idea until they realized it was 8-12 hours of working like crazy instead of the standard 2-3. It's still competitive, after all.

I could imagine a week long interview as pretty rough.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#12
post #4

We need more genetic diversity in STEM. When will we be introducing DNA testing and doing mutation testing on all candidates to ensure perfectly equal distribution of all genetic combinations among employees?

Eliminating a source of bias that might prevent optimal workers from being hired is efficient, the initiatives listed in your sarcastic strawman are not.

Removing bias is good.

Telling the people responsible for hiring that we need more diversity in a particular area is just introducing a new bias.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#13
post #6

> Terms like these – or interview questions such as ‘where you see yourself in five years’ – can be too general for people with autism, as many with the condition can find vague questions particularly hard to decipher. Pretty sure it's not just autistic folks who have to have prepped & memorized some bullshit in advance to have any kind of "acceptable" answer to those sorts of questions. Not to take away from the bro…

There's a standard set of normal interview questions and 'the right answers' for those questions, yeah.

The douchebag thing, I'd been lucky up until probably a year ago, never had a significant personal issue with a co-worker. Then I met two at once, on two concurrent projects simultaneously, and it sucked balls. It's amazing how much it can sour a whole project.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#14
post #3

> Instead of using CVs and interviews, potential employees undergo a basic competency assessment in which they are evaluated against 25 desirable attributes for software testers, such as the ability to learn new systems or take on feedback. Following these initial tests, potential staff undergo a week of working from home fully paid. They still have an interview. It just isn’t like a traditional interview. You need t…

Yes, they've fully diversified their workforce by selecting for people who do not currently have jobs. Nobody with a job can -- or at least, will -- take a week off of work to do a test interview.

That was a bit snarky but I wonder if you do have somewhat of a point. I'd expect a lot more diversity among unemployed and underemployed people than among your typical engineering demographic.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#15
Any hiring process will by definition favour certain kinds of candidates at the expense of others. Having a week long paid trial is a great way for the company to be less conservative about who they try out, but will also mean they’ll miss out on candidates who are already employed and unwilling to take time off or quit their job to participate in it. In the end though, if they can tap into an undervalued candidate pool though, they should come put ahead.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#16
post #3

> Instead of using CVs and interviews, potential employees undergo a basic competency assessment in which they are evaluated against 25 desirable attributes for software testers, such as the ability to learn new systems or take on feedback. Following these initial tests, potential staff undergo a week of working from home fully paid. They still have an interview. It just isn’t like a traditional interview. You need t…

It's not an interview if they're paying you, it's a conditional hire for a week. Calling it an interview is like calling actually starting a job after a barrage of three interviews the fourth interview. At some point you're torturing the meaning of the word to pointlessness.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they've fully diversified their workforce by selecting for people who do not currently have jobs. Nobody with a job can -- or at least, will -- take a week off of work to do a test interview.

That was a bit snarky but I wonder if you do have somewhat of a point. I'd expect a lot more diversity among unemployed and underemployed people than among your typical engineering demographic.

Yep, that really isn't an issue here. The unemployment rate in this demographic is usually above 75%.

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#18
post #6

> Terms like these – or interview questions such as ‘where you see yourself in five years’ – can be too general for people with autism, as many with the condition can find vague questions particularly hard to decipher. Pretty sure it's not just autistic folks who have to have prepped & memorized some bullshit in advance to have any kind of "acceptable" answer to those sorts of questions. Not to take away from the bro…

Never in my entire career have I been asked the 'where do you see yourself in 5 years' question. It doesn't even make sense in the tech world. In five years? There's a good chance your company/business unit won't exist and I'll be 1-2 jobs on from this one mate. Don't worry about it. It sounds like a hollywood movie cliche you'd hear at an interview scene. I'd laugh if I got that question in an actual interview. I'm…

I think I had that exact one once early on. I did actually get an "if you could go back in time a couple years, what advice would you give yourself?" a little while ago, which 1) threw me, because I wasn't expecting much of that formula crap from this place, and 2) I hadn't prepped for, so I just punted, being able to think of very little other than things unrelated to work but also lame, cliché, or "don't interview at that place, you'll have to answer a dumb question and then you'll feel like an asshole when you can't". I tried to deflect with a joke but it didn't work. Oh well.

I've consistently gotten the "tell me about a time you fucked up" and "tell me about a time you worked with a douchebag" ones. And simple "tell me about a time you disagreed with someone at work"-type ones. Not every interview, but often. And unless you've actually had an experience that happens to make for a good answer to those, you've basically got to make something up. Even if you have fucked up tons of things and worked with a bunch of douchebags—the questions are weird because if everyone answers totally honestly some people will have way better answers, especially if they're also good story-tellers, because they've been lucky ("lucky") enough to have had an experience fitted perfectly to a good answer for those questions.

Even for the simple "time you disagreed" one, I don't exactly file away details about little disagreements in my head, so I can't form a satisfying tale from those—almost all of which were pretty boring anyway—sorry, so here's some made up bullshit again. Which will be better than most people's best honest story anyway. What the fuck was the point of these, again?

[EDIT] I actually think being a smidge less psychologically stable and well-adjusted might make it easier to answer some of these! Hahaha. Shouldn't have read the Stoics so much in high school, I guess.

[EDIT, responding to edit]

> I'm sure it made sense 30-50 years ago when people spent decades with the same employer, but anyone asking that question today is just indicating how out of touch they are with the real world.

Yeah the honest answer, based even on my relatively stable employment history, would be "somewhere other than your company, with a 15-20% pay bump (by the time I leave—30% over what you're about to offer me now), probably attained leveraging something I learned here". Just following the trend line here, don't blame me :-)

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#19
post #6

> Terms like these – or interview questions such as ‘where you see yourself in five years’ – can be too general for people with autism, as many with the condition can find vague questions particularly hard to decipher. Pretty sure it's not just autistic folks who have to have prepped & memorized some bullshit in advance to have any kind of "acceptable" answer to those sorts of questions. Not to take away from the bro…

Never in my entire career have I been asked the 'where do you see yourself in 5 years' question. It doesn't even make sense in the tech world. In five years? There's a good chance your company/business unit won't exist and I'll be 1-2 jobs on from this one mate. Don't worry about it. It sounds like a hollywood movie cliche you'd hear at an interview scene. I'd laugh if I got that question in an actual interview. I'm…

I've had it. I did indeed laugh. It didn't seem to matter in the end, got an offer. I don't think the company had existed for 5 years. :)

Re: To hire neurodiverse workers, one firm got rid of job interviews

#20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never in my entire career have I been asked the 'where do you see yourself in 5 years' question. It doesn't even make sense in the tech world. In five years? There's a good chance your company/business unit won't exist and I'll be 1-2 jobs on from this one mate. Don't worry about it. It sounds like a hollywood movie cliche you'd hear at an interview scene. I'd laugh if I got that question in an actual interview. I'm…

I think I had that exact one once early on. I did actually get an "if you could go back in time a couple years, what advice would you give yourself?" a little while ago, which 1) threw me, because I wasn't expecting much of that formula crap from this place, and 2) I hadn't prepped for, so I just punted, being able to think of very little other than things unrelated to work but also lame, cliché, or "don't interview…

> you've basically got to make something up

Do you? I just say "sorry, that hasn't happened to me" if I need a 'not applicable' answer. I don't think it's affected my hit rate.

I generally just act completely openly and honestly in interviews. Could be a regional thing.

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