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Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

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Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#81
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this often (including an accompanying XKCD cartoon[1]) and don't agree with it. It may be a good summary of the first amendment in the US constitution but "judicial imprisonment" doesn't define the boundaries of free speech issues. Otherwise there wouldn't be things like whistleblower laws protecting some speakers. Does China putting pressure on the NBA to stop players from saying pro-Hong-Kong-protests things…

Last I checked, China are literally a government. That said, I find weaknesses across the board with conventional arguments and talking points concerning speech. It really is complicated. And there is considerable previous thought, precedent, and philosophy that's been forgotten or ignored.

China is not threatening to arrest and try basketball players in the US. Their main threat is loss of financial income to the NBA.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#82
post #7

Facebook has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech is "you don't go to jail for saying something." You're not entitled to a platform for shouting out loud.

This is just a slogan people keep saying, and whilst it's useful fodder for one side of the debate, I'd encourage you to question it. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the concept of free speech outside of what is protected by the US constitution. That is what people are often talking about, and even though their legal recourse (in the US) is often limited to only preventing government censorship, we are free to have debates about what is right and wrong about allowing or censoring other kinds of speech.

Saying "you're not entitled to X" with reference to current laws is disregarding that people are actually arguing against those laws, or about situations where they don't apply. Even when people are talking about the law, some laws are unjust: quoting present law is not an argument about anything except what the law is.

I'd also encourage you to consider that the writers of the US constitution were in favour of free speech generally, and almost certainly would have tried to constitutionally entrench a broader concept of it than they did, if it were practical to do so. The decision to only prevent government censorship is a practical one - government stopping others from censoring was (is) considered outside of the role of the government, or too impractical to actually enforce. That doesn't mean the writers of the constitution thought that other kinds of censorship were ok. They just didn't think rules about them belonged in a document about the US federal government.

Finally, most countries do not have freedom of speech entrenched in their constitutions, but "free speech" is still a phrase in these places, and they are not talking about the US constitution. Free speech has historically been considered an important right in post-enlightenment societies, regardless of legal protections, and regardless of trendy people on the 'right side of history' saying otherwise. The fact that oppressed people are presently somewhat anti-free-speech is due to the unusual situation of them having friends in high places. This is not usually the case, and throwing out the ideal of free speech to the greatest extent permitted by the US constitution does a great disservice to future oppressed people who are unlikely to have the media and tech companies on their side, as well as present oppressed people who have fallen through the cracks because their flavour of oppression isn't currently in vogue.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#83
post #69

Any form of media that earns its profit from viewership and selling advertising, including broadcast and cable news and news radio, is optimized for outrage. That's what attracts the eyeballs. The "algorithmic" part is irrelevant.

Sex attracts eyeballs too though it's a bit more difficult to sell Kraft Cheese Singles using sex.

Thinks of European orange juice commercials

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#85
The algorithm is optimized for emotional potency that leads to increased engagement. Outrage is just one of the more monetizable emotions the algorithm is good at.

Consider also schadenfreude, in-group signaling, etc. All of these loom large on Facebook.

Compared to traditional consolidated media companies, Facebook does have the potential to be a better medium for “speech”.

But censorship is inevitable when advertising looms so large on the platform, so inevitably many forms of speech will be suppressed, leaving only the stuff that is the most establishment friendly.

Note that Hillary Clinton just made a statement accusing Tulsi Gabbard of being funded by Russia. A logical next step would be for Facebook to pull ads that are in favor of Gabbard. In essence, major party views are intrinsically conservative and uncontroversial.

What are Gabbard’s fringe views? She opposes some of the military/warmaking that Hillary made her career supporting.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#86

There was a period where feeds were just wall to wall outrage. Literally, at trump, at obama, at random other friends on facebook. It was crazy. Reality - life's much better getting off social media and hanging out with friends in real life - and instagram has a bit less outrage machine stuff - easier / quieter place to share pix of the kids playing and catchup with what folks are up to.

About a third of friends on Facebook appear in my feed. It was the only way to get rid of the outrage. Now it's mostly friends and family members posting about their kids, concerts, and some travel. It's sad that so many people whose lives I'd like to keep up with have to be excluded but many people actually think reposting outrage all day actually changes the world in the way they wish it to be changed.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#87
post #69

Any form of media that earns its profit from viewership and selling advertising, including broadcast and cable news and news radio, is optimized for outrage. That's what attracts the eyeballs. The "algorithmic" part is irrelevant.

Ironically, this very article is a perfect example.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#89
post #57
post #21

Comment deleted because this doesn’t appear to be the right place to discuss nuanced issues about Facebook.

I’d prefer if their profit model was made more clear. They’re clearly acting in an abetting manner for the unethical and sometimes criminal activity that happens on their site. If this means they are forced to change drastically as a result of this then so be it. At this point it’s them or our democracy.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that the laws should be changed to limit the political freedom of some companies? If so, what would be your criteria for determining which companies this would apply to?

When they're so big that no competition can challenge them. My personal opinion is that Facebook should be broken up, but social media remain unregulated, since a ban on lies only rewards the most skilled liars, whose statements can fool the evaluators.

> When they're so big that no competition can challenge them.

This is pretty vague though. It also raises questions about why we don't limit the political proclivities of other types of companies that also deal in political speech (cable news, broadcast news, talk radio, public radio).

I also disagree with the idea that access to Facebook and similar platforms is fundamentally important; it's well known by now that these systems are engineered to be addictive and that heavy use of social media is associated with poor mental health, if anything we should make ad based social media platforms illegal altogether.

> My personal opinion is that Facebook should be broken up

Why? I am not opposed to the idea but I just don't see how it would improve the situation at all.

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