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The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

seventhings.liftweb.net

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Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#61

Post by shadowfiend »

jasonkester wrote: post #4

Looks like it's great for building the things the authors thought you might want to build. Just like every other "SuperMagic" framework, I suspect there's a lot of pain to be had once you step just a little outside of what it expects you to do with it. We've all re-written Django inside of Django at least once, and thus have been burned by this sort of thing before. Personally, I think I'll wait to see some big proje…

Depends on your definition of pain. I've found the full stack of Lift features quite accessible, if at times somewhat poorly documented (but the group is quite excellent for these situations), from the basics to situations where I needed to short-circuit most of the Lift handling pipeline entirely to serve up something specific.

As for big projects, well, Foursquare is written in Lift.

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#63

Post by parfe »

zeemonkee wrote: post #37
bad_user wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Django for a lot of projects, but have recently converted to Rails 3 for a personal project. What I like about Rails is that plugins are mostly pieces of infrastructure, not ready-to-use mini-applications that are hard to customize. And Rack plugins (pieces of middleware, done in a standard/reusable way, contrary to Django's middleware) are just awesome. I also like about Rails that authentication and…

> But it completely got in my way so many times that I actually thought about writing my own Python web framework; which I shouldn't because people have been working on web-related stuff for the past 20 years. You could always try Flask or Pylons.

Pylons is dead. The authors moved on to Pyramid after declaring Pylons core too difficult to maintain. The upgrade path to Pyramid is "Run your pylons app inside pyramid as you rewrite it from scratch [into our new shiny framework we promise not to abandon]!"

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#64

Post by extension »

realugglan wrote: post #22
vdm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A framework's website needs a list of links to sites that are using it.

You mean like this web framework's website has? http://www.liftweb.net/

I see four random logos on the front page but I can't find a complete list anywhere.

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#65

Post by code_duck »

bad_user wrote: post #24
jasonkester wrote: post #4

Looks like it's great for building the things the authors thought you might want to build. Just like every other "SuperMagic" framework, I suspect there's a lot of pain to be had once you step just a little outside of what it expects you to do with it. We've all re-written Django inside of Django at least once, and thus have been burned by this sort of thing before. Personally, I think I'll wait to see some big proje…

I've been using Django for a lot of projects, but have recently converted to Rails 3 for a personal project. What I like about Rails is that plugins are mostly pieces of infrastructure, not ready-to-use mini-applications that are hard to customize. And Rack plugins (pieces of middleware, done in a standard/reusable way, contrary to Django's middleware) are just awesome. I also like about Rails that authentication and…

You're not forced to use the Forms class in Django. You can process and output forms manually; that part never felt natural to me so I just skipped it and work with them like I do in PHP.

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#66

Post by extension »

Unfortunately, this site takes the approach of "look how you can build wiz-bang with only N lines of code" rather than explaining the underlying functionality. This is exactly the wrong approach to impress developers.

It may be that Lift uses versatile and air-tight abstractions to accomplish these things, but we can't really figure that out from what's on this site. I recommend that the authors focus more on the principles on which Lift is built.

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#67

Post by fleitz »

If your pages directly access the model, where is the controller? When I see things like foo.html it makes me think that this is not an MVC framework. (eg. foo.html on the server = /foo.html on the website)

If you don't shred pages from the designer then how to you retain the same look and feel across pages (eg. Does lift not have templating?)

Also, Lift is not the best framework for me because you have to write HTML and can't use something like HAML.

Sass + Haml + coffescript = WIN!

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#68

Post by sorenbs »

extension wrote: post #64
realugglan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like this web framework's website has? http://www.liftweb.net/

I see four random logos on the front page but I can't find a complete list anywhere.

At the end of every release notice they put a list. It is in no way complete though.

http://lift.la/ann-lift-22-release

Re: The best Web Framework - what makes Lift different

#70

Post by shadowfiend »

wyuenho wrote: post #47

Let's pretend that these 7 things are really important and makes Lift different. The key hurdle of people adopting Lift is probably the Scala language more than anything. If people feel like they are comfortable in a language, they'll use anything they can get their hands on just to have some fun. But does it look like people are having fun with Scala? When I learned SML in school, I remembered it was quite pleasant.…

Please, do start on the 2.8 collections. I'm curious to know what your problems are that an actual user of the collections would run into when using them.
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