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Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

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Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#111
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on your job, i think people confuse the true idea of what a college education is meant to be. It is not a trade, nor is it career-prepping with the exception of a handful of programs (engineering, nursing, accounting). So in your case, depending on your field, your education was designed to give you a basic understanding of the fundamentals that you will need and the critical thinking skills that will allow…

That’s the theory that people keep repeating, but research keeps failing to substantiate that. University syllabuses keep teaching people things that is not going to be useful to anyone, or will only be useful to tiny fraction of people, who’d likely just learn it as needed anyway. Experiments show that transfer learning basically doesn’t exist, average people simply cannot apply principles they’ve learned in one con…

> Experiments show that transfer learning basically doesn’t exist, average people simply cannot apply principles they’ve learned in one context in a completely different context.

This is an exceptionally bold claim. Sounds dubious.

> Finally, many people have very successful careers in one field despite having a degree in a completely different field, which suggests that whatever people learn in their degrees doesn’t really matter all that much.

No it doesn’t. For that to be true you would need to demonstrate that, say, having an engineering degree does not influence likelihood or magnitude of success in engineering careers.

In reality there are likely going to be many recipes for success. Nepotism or social skills is one. Learned Competence is also one. Dumb luck is a third. The fact that you can succeed without such things does not mean such things are worthless

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#112
post #4

The GRE is increasingly being dropped as well. The motivation is racial diversity. For example at Brown: https://www.brown.edu/news/2019-10-03/gre The GRE is no longer needed for... American Studies Biotechnology Biomedical Engineering Chemistry Comparative Literature Computational Biology Computer Science Earth, Environmental and Planetary Sciences Ecology and Evolutionary Biology English French Studies German Studi…

> " Computer Science " While I like to rag on pseudo-diversity as much as the next person, the Computer Science GRE was discontinued in 2013; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graduate_Record_Examinations#G... . Can't require something that no longer exists.

They are most likely referring to the regular GRE, not the subject test. Most CS programs require the regular GRE.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#113
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT and ACT are a fantastic detector to identify rich and motivated parents who are willing to drop off their kid for 2 years at cramming centers for weekly tutoring sessions and trial tests... and who are willing to pay thousands for it. I’ve been there, his scores went up significantly. I don’t think it made him smarter in any way. Combine that with our ability to buy a house in a very good school district and…

> " The SAT and ACT are a fantastic detector to identify rich and motivated parents who are willing to drop off their kid for 2 years at cramming centers for weekly tutoring sessions and trial tests... and who are willing to pay thousands for it. " It was great for me, as a poor minority who was highly dedicated to education and self-learning. Felt pretty good to do as well or better than the wealthier kids despite n…

Congratulations on making it in.

The problem with these kind of discussions is that you can always find examples where the system worked in ways that favored those who would in general not benefit from it.

I think there is no question that rich people on average have a huge leg up compared those who are not. That’s fundamentally broken.

The fact that you, as member of the non-rich, were able to use that to your advantage doesn’t change that overall conclusion.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#114
Surprise, surprise, colleges in the business of printing diplomas (which are about 90% of them at this point) make getting in easier, all while continuing to skyrocket the tuition and indebt students.

Higher education is so bankrupt.

Maybe we should institute no-nonsense schools without all the fluff that do have test requirements for entry.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#115
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ex professor here. Faculty have the power to end this bezzle if we admit students are learning nothing and we'd all be better off with real jobs. I learned quite a lot in most of my classes in college; if your students weren't maybe that's not an indictment of the education system so much as their particular institution & instructors.

I’ve also learned a lot in my degrees, and greatly enjoyed my time in the university. However, I’ve only ever needed a tiny fraction of what I learned there in my jobs at Google and Facebook.

... what were your degrees? I'm assuming you're a programmer?

I only had a BA in comp sci, and almost every CS course I've taken has been useful to some degree. Operating Systems, Data Structures, Programming Languages, even Theory of Computation.

Sure most of the day-to-day is people skills and rote programming. Strategically Comp Sci has been very valuable in the long run.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#116
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT and ACT are a fantastic detector to identify rich and motivated parents who are willing to drop off their kid for 2 years at cramming centers for weekly tutoring sessions and trial tests... and who are willing to pay thousands for it. I’ve been there, his scores went up significantly. I don’t think it made him smarter in any way. Combine that with our ability to buy a house in a very good school district and…

I’m proud parent, and I want my child to get all the opportunities Every parent believes this, and so here we are. It was in your power to opt out but you chose not to.

I can’t stand the policies of Ayn Rand, but don’t hold it against her that she relied on social security at the end of her life.

I ask my accountant to make me pay what I own the government in taxes and not a cent more, yet I would have no issue whatsoever if the government raised them by 10% if that meant universal healthcare.

I don’t see a contradiction in seeing issues in the world and wanting the rules to change for everybody yet at the same time playing by those rules.

And in this case in particular, it’d be impacting his future, not even mine.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#117
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " The SAT and ACT are a fantastic detector to identify rich and motivated parents who are willing to drop off their kid for 2 years at cramming centers for weekly tutoring sessions and trial tests... and who are willing to pay thousands for it. " It was great for me, as a poor minority who was highly dedicated to education and self-learning. Felt pretty good to do as well or better than the wealthier kids despite n…

Congratulations on making it in. The problem with these kind of discussions is that you can always find examples where the system worked in ways that favored those who would in general not benefit from it. I think there is no question that rich people on average have a huge leg up compared those who are not. That’s fundamentally broken. The fact that you, as member of the non-rich, were able to use that to your advan…

> "I think there is no question that rich people on average have a huge leg up compared those who are not. That’s fundamentally broken."

We already know that it's fundamentally broken but we also know that this action isn't going to change that. So what exactly are you trying to say here?

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#118
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on making it in. The problem with these kind of discussions is that you can always find examples where the system worked in ways that favored those who would in general not benefit from it. I think there is no question that rich people on average have a huge leg up compared those who are not. That’s fundamentally broken. The fact that you, as member of the non-rich, were able to use that to your advan…

> " I think there is no question that rich people on average have a huge leg up compared those who are not. That’s fundamentally broken. " We already know that it's fundamentally broken but we also know that this action isn't going to change that. So what exactly are you trying to say here?

The way I read it, your initial comment seemed to defend the current system for non-rich people since it allows a few non-rich to take advantage of it (at the expense of other non-rich.)

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#119
Ignoring the debate about its usefulness, I have a really hard time with the line of thinking that minority/disadvantaged populations do poorly on the test therefore it is discriminatory.

Everyone takes the same test. Preparing for it more (prep classes etc) will make you do better. That is true, but what does a non discriminatory measure look like then? Unless it has exactly proportional results then it can be called discriminatory. What sort of test/measure can you create that will make having resources to prepare for it more than someone else not matter? Would that even be a good measure?

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#120

As someone who dealt with severe depression during high school, I feel like the SATs really helped me out during college admissions time. Just getting out of bed every day was a real struggle for me and as a result my attendance was poor, my grades were spotty, and I didn’t have any formal extra curriculars I could show off. But I did get the highest SAT scores in my class, and I feel like that helped demonstrate tha…

I was a solid B student in high school. I got a 35 on the ACT, which apparently helped me land a scholarship. So same boat as you.

Except I then it lost due to being a depressed anxious wreck, not showing up to classes, switching majors 2-3 times and finally dropping out after 5 years full time + 2 years part time + 50k in student loan debt.

It's fine now though, apparently degrees aren't all that important for most software development jobs.

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