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Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

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Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#21
post #16
post #9

There’s a thing called the “Cell Danger Response”, where individual cells react to detecting danger to themselves in a somewhat selfish way, by inflaming and emitting purines (the chemicals cells also release when they lyse apart during apoptosis.) By the fact that other cells detect danger using these purines, this response is usually cascading in a local area. It lasts a long time; sometimes cells just never go out…

I had never heard of this "cell danger response" before, and there's something about your description that does't smell right to this former cell biologist. It's worth noting that so far, this seems to be a theory being advanced by one scientist: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=%22cell+danger+res... This is not to say it's not true. But let's be careful here.

The jargon term is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purinergic_signalling.

Personally, I find “Cell Danger Response” useful as a term to specifically reference one type of purinergic signalling. One which, yes, the author you link to is investigating, and invented the “Cell Danger Response” term for; but one which was already known as a type of purinergic signal (and an interesting, unique response to said signal) before their work. Their contribution is mostly in the disease linkages, not in providing evidence that the purine signal+response they call “Cell Danger Response” happens.

So, in other words, even if they’re P-hacking, the worst setback science might see is that these syndromes don’t turn out to be ameliorated by CDR-inhibiting enzymes after all.

However, I would note at least one distributed experiment by another “author”: the nootropics community has adopted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulforaphane as a seemingly-effective treatment for the symptoms of autistic spectrum disorders (to the point that, with only their interest, it has become a common supplement with many available brands.) While we don’t understand sulforaphane very well, various journal papers suggest it has a role in modulating purine metabolism; and so the amateur biologists of the Internet have hypothesized that it is likely “cleaning” purinergic signalling molecules out of affected tissue for long enough for the cells to “relax” and stop screaming at one-another.

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#22

Because we pretty much solved all the acute illnesses so we are left with self-inflicted chronic conditions. Pretty much all non-genetic chronic conditions are a result of diet and exercise. You can drastically reduce your chances of cancer, stroke, heart attack, alzeihmers, T2 diabetes, Parkinson’s.... you name it, with diet and exercise. You can even cure most of them with diet and exercise. I’ll be downvoted to ob…

Related to this, I saw an interesting graph where money spent on food is inversely correlated to money spent on health care. So spending more to eat healthier food will save you money on health care in the future. Or you can eat cheap food and accumulate health debt.

> I saw an interesting graph where money spent on food is inversely correlated to money spent on health care.

I would really like to see this graph to justify my own addiction to whole foods and shop there with less guilt.

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#23
post #7
post #6

Isn't it part of the body's response to sickness? Why does screaming tend to underlie all stabbings?

Screaming doesn’t worsen stabbing wounds, directly. But inflammation does often (in all the examples I’ve read) worsen the triggering illness.

Could that be because when inflammation cures disease you don't get to read about it because nobody even looks to a healthy person?

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#24
post #8

I see a reference to cancer below, I recently started looking into this, it's actually fascination. There is actually some research being done on non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs such as celecoxib or diclofenac for treatment of leukemia. Since Leukemia is actually related to an increase of white blood cells which are produced in response to inflammation/infection I was curious if there's any relationship and imm…

It is important to look at the overall body of research available on the matter.

What you have linked has no placebo-arm to compare to. In addition, only cells from 6 patients were tested. Furthermore, this is for extremely resistant CML patients who do not respond to imatinib (first line treatment).

However, the introduction of second generation TKI inhibitors is now the standard of care in imatinib resistant CML patients.

I haven’t referenced any particular pubmed entries since there are 6 or 7 second gen TKI’s, however, this reference by the American cancer society gives a good summary of available options.

[1] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/chronic-myeloid-leukemia/treat...

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#25

Because we pretty much solved all the acute illnesses so we are left with self-inflicted chronic conditions. Pretty much all non-genetic chronic conditions are a result of diet and exercise. You can drastically reduce your chances of cancer, stroke, heart attack, alzeihmers, T2 diabetes, Parkinson’s.... you name it, with diet and exercise. You can even cure most of them with diet and exercise. I’ll be downvoted to ob…

"illness is a choice"

I was with you until you wrote this. Instead of encouraging people to live better because they can reduce their chances of getting sick (I agree with that) you took it a step further and into negative territory.

Just say that a lot of chronic conditions can be improved by better lifestyle. Don't blame the victim.

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#26

Because we pretty much solved all the acute illnesses so we are left with self-inflicted chronic conditions. Pretty much all non-genetic chronic conditions are a result of diet and exercise. You can drastically reduce your chances of cancer, stroke, heart attack, alzeihmers, T2 diabetes, Parkinson’s.... you name it, with diet and exercise. You can even cure most of them with diet and exercise. I’ll be downvoted to ob…

I find it difficult to agree to this statement from a holistic perspective since there are many unknowns that the average individual has little to no control over. For example, how do you, as an individual, can control the air quality in your vicinity [1]? the water quality [2]? soil? pesticide/procurement/logistics of food? Work environment? Family environment?

What do you do and how do you control the quality of all these things for a long stretch of time (1, 10, 30 years?)? In theory, as you have more income, you may have more control over some of the areas above, but the reality is that some factors are still difficult to control/ balance.

There is still a major part of acute illnesses that are directly associated with choice in the areas of dieting and exercise, so do not take my response as a full counterargument to your opinion.

[1] World's Air Pollution: Real-time Air Quality Index - https://waqi.info/ [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-20/world-ban...

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#27
Could it have to do with early humans being scavengers? I heard there is some scientific support for this hypothesis, and I can imagine this may have had a profound (and evolutionarily recent) effect on our immune system.

Could someone with more expertise shed a light?

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#28

Because we pretty much solved all the acute illnesses so we are left with self-inflicted chronic conditions. Pretty much all non-genetic chronic conditions are a result of diet and exercise. You can drastically reduce your chances of cancer, stroke, heart attack, alzeihmers, T2 diabetes, Parkinson’s.... you name it, with diet and exercise. You can even cure most of them with diet and exercise. I’ll be downvoted to ob…

I find it difficult to agree to this statement from a holistic perspective since there are many unknowns that the average individual has little to no control over. For example, how do you, as an individual, can control the air quality in your vicinity [1]? the water quality [2]? soil? pesticide/procurement/logistics of food? Work environment? Family environment? What do you do and how do you control the quality of al…

You can move? That’s what I did.

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#29
post #14
post #4

The article does not really support the implicit thesis from the title - it lists some diseases that are caused by bad inflamation, some items are maybe surprising - but it does not mention diseases that obviously have different causes like infections. Overall clickbait with no content.

Even in infections, it can be the inflammatory response which causes the damage. I had myocarditis following a flu infection, but it wasn't the influenza virus that screwed up my heart muscle, it was the white blood cells going apeshit trying to kill it.

If someone pushes you, and you start swinging your arms wildly to balance yourself, but end up falling in a different direction - why did you fall?

Re: Why Does Inflammation Seem to Underlie All Sickness?

#30
It's perfectly intuitive to me. Taking things further, anxiety could be seen as inflammation of the mind and social unrest as inflammation of a society. Each, in the right amount, serves as an important corrective mechanism for dealing with threats. But in excess, each becomes a gradually destructive force.

Anxiety and physical inflammation are even directly correlated, and social unrest and anxiety probably are too.

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