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If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

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Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#11

Post by tptacek »

diego wrote: post #6
tptacek wrote: post #3

No, for assistance to an enemy to be treasonable, war must actually have been declared, and only Congress can declare war. Actually waging war on the US is treasonable without a Congressional declaration, but the definition depends on a state of "open war" in which you're part of a recognized assembled group of people engaged in open armed hostilities. The short answer to almost all these kinds of questions is "it's…

1) You're assuming this ONLY discusses the possibility of the US declaring war via tweet. The article clearly talks about ANY country that could declare war via tweet. 2) It specifically addresses the question of the US and Congress. https://abe-winter.github.io/2019/10/18/tweason.html#can-a-t...

Yes, its analysis of the US and Congress is, I believe, simply wrong. The President can effectively levy war in the 21st century without Congress, but such "wars" do not create the conditions required for treason. Treason is incumbent on war being properly declared.

Even John Walker Lindh couldn't be charged with treason, and he had the weight of an actual AUMF against him.

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#12

Post by penileImplant »

If a fortune cookie declares war, is it treason to eat it?

If a roll of toilet paper declares war, is it treason to wipe your ass with it?

If war is declared with a telephone call, is it treason to hang up?

If a beeper receives a pager notification to call back a number so that war can be declared, is it treason to ignore the page?

If wars might be declared via twitter, huge portions of human civilization are about to go up in smoke. Those using twitter to declare war will probably lose.

It's probably treason to use twitter as an escalation channel.

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#14

Post by akersten »

caiocaiocaio wrote: post #5
akersten wrote: post #2

Sorry, I'm really not seeing the jump to "treason" here. I also think the author has a personal vendetta against Twitter based on the final sentence of the post, but regardless - they acknowledge that declaration of war is a congressional power, and that contempt of Congress is a possibility - but somehow this means that removal of a post from a member of the executive branch is treason? Would the New York Times refu…

You and me have an extremely different definition of personal vendetta!

That's fair, "vendetta" is too strong of a word. "Personal bias" is better-suited. It's just hard to read a post calling them "internet vampires" and still assume a neutral author.

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#15

Post by tomatotomato37 »

The early conversation here seems to focus more on US procedures and government branches than Twitter's responsibilities but Twitter is not just accessible to US world leaders. What would happen if some Middle Eastern monarch used the service to declare war on a neighboring country. I think even the UK still does war declaration from only the Queen, how should Twitter respond to it then?

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#16

Post by time0ut »

tptacek wrote: post #3

No, for assistance to an enemy to be treasonable, war must actually have been declared, and only Congress can declare war. Actually waging war on the US is treasonable without a Congressional declaration, but the definition depends on a state of "open war" in which you're part of a recognized assembled group of people engaged in open armed hostilities. The short answer to almost all these kinds of questions is "it's…

Ya, it isn't even close to meeting the legal definition of treason. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see the author of such a tweet call it treason all the same. It is an interesting question.

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#17

Post by Retric »

tptacek wrote: post #11
diego wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You're assuming this ONLY discusses the possibility of the US declaring war via tweet. The article clearly talks about ANY country that could declare war via tweet. 2) It specifically addresses the question of the US and Congress. https://abe-winter.github.io/2019/10/18/tweason.html#can-a-t...

Yes, its analysis of the US and Congress is, I believe, simply wrong. The President can effectively levy war in the 21st century without Congress, but such "wars" do not create the conditions required for treason. Treason is incumbent on war being properly declared. Even John Walker Lindh couldn't be charged with treason, and he had the weight of an actual AUMF against him.

You can be convicted of treason without a war being declared. Walter Allen being the most obvious case. https://www.wvencyclopedia.org/articles/205

What makes this case so interesting is it was treason vs a specific state not the entire USA.

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#18

Post by tptacek »

Retric wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, its analysis of the US and Congress is, I believe, simply wrong. The President can effectively levy war in the 21st century without Congress, but such "wars" do not create the conditions required for treason. Treason is incumbent on war being properly declared. Even John Walker Lindh couldn't be charged with treason, and he had the weight of an actual AUMF against him.

You can be convicted of treason without a war being declared. Walter Allen being the most obvious case. https://www.wvencyclopedia.org/articles/205 What makes this case so interesting is it was treason vs a specific state not the entire USA.

See my original comment on this thread. The definition of "declared or open war", the conditions required in the US, go back into English Common Law.

Re: If a tweet declares war, is it treason to take it down?

#19

Post by diego »

time0ut wrote: post #10
diego wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You're assuming this ONLY discusses the possibility of the US declaring war via tweet. The article clearly talks about ANY country that could declare war via tweet. 2) It specifically addresses the question of the US and Congress. https://abe-winter.github.io/2019/10/18/tweason.html#can-a-t...

Would it be possible for Twitter to commit treason against another country at all?

I don't suppose it's a company that commits treason, rather an individual making a decision. If so, it may depend on the nationality of the decider. What if, say, the Twitter community manager for France decided to take down such a tweet by a French official.
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