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Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

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Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#221

Post by narrator »

vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

From a purely darwinistic perspective, cows have been hugely successful thanks to their partnership with humans. I am unconvinced that there is some sort of underutilized potential for dairy cows to be something other than they are.

Human neural networks are miscalibrated to trigger oxytocin around non-humans or even convincing fakes, for example many people are absolutely in love with stuffed animals too, but it's pretty evolutionarily maladapted.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#222

Post by dbcurtis »

bariumbitmap wrote: post #205

One aspect the article does not fully address is why so many dairy farmers are using artificial insemination instead of bulls. Partly it's slightly enhanced milk production, but a bigger reason is the availability of sexed semen, allowing farmers to breed roughly 95% heifer calves instead of 50%. This is a big deal for a dairy farm's finances because a cow is much more valuable than a steer. https://www.agweb.com/art…

Ha. The number 1 reason AI is popular with dairy farmers? Dairy bulls are more dangerous than you can imagine. Holstein bulls, especially, have a bad, bad, attitude. 2000 pounds of territorial nastiness. Unrepentant killers. Plus, you are working with the cows twice a day, so it is easy to tell when they are in heat.

Contrast with the Aberdeen Angus beef cattle that my father bred. Beef bulls are, for whatever reason, fairly mellow. I would walk through the bull lot regularly. Now, I would always keep an eye on the bulls, and calculate how fast I could run to the fence and jump over, but I never received worse than the evil eye and a snorting hoof-stamp. A Holstein would have crushed me 3 times over by then. Also, beef cows generally are left to their own devices out in the pasture, so tracking when they are in heat is challenging making AI much less practical.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#223

Post by evandev »

vfc1 wrote: post #196
hitpointdrew wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a similar, but opposite boat. Instead of feeling like I am closer to going vegetarian, I feel myself closer to becoming a hunter. I don't like my meat coming from poor factory farm practices, and think it would be great if I could source most of my meat though hunting, and then supplement it with meat and eggs from local farms. BTW factory farming isn't just isolated to animals, there are lots of issues with larg…

Actually, most crops (80% of the world crops) are for feeding animals. Shooting the animals yourself is not a very practical solution, or scalable. Sure you could do it for yourself and your family at great expense of your time and even some personal risk, but what about the rest of your city and country? That would surely not scale, there is just not enough wild game to hunt, it can only be done at certain times of…

I consider it to be practical, enjoyable, and yes non-scalable. But I would also consider the world going vegetarian as not realistic, and just like some people go vegetarian to reduce their carbon footprint, I'm going to hunt to reduce mine.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#224

Post by coryfklein »

bariumbitmap wrote: post #205

One aspect the article does not fully address is why so many dairy farmers are using artificial insemination instead of bulls. Partly it's slightly enhanced milk production, but a bigger reason is the availability of sexed semen, allowing farmers to breed roughly 95% heifer calves instead of 50%. This is a big deal for a dairy farm's finances because a cow is much more valuable than a steer. https://www.agweb.com/art…

This BLOWS my mind. We have machines that are sorting bull semen PER CELL based on the increased mass of the XX DNA vs XY DNA?! I never would have guessed that this is even possible, let alone that we're already doing it.

From your first link:

> For sex sorted semen, the ability to shift the gender ratio of a calf crop comes from the fact that gender is determined by the sperm cell that fertilizes the egg. Sperm cells that result in a heifer calf (XX) have more DNA than sperm cells that result in a bull calf (XY).

> Of the several attempts to find ways to sort XX and XY sperm cells, the only method proven to be commercially viable is flow cytometry. Before going through the flow cytometer (sorting machine), a fluorescent dye is incorporated into the DNA of the sperm cells. They pass through the sorting machine in drops of liquid containing a single sperm cell per droplet. The machine detects the amount of florescence each cell emits; an XX sperm cell will have more florescence than an XY. A positive or negative charge is applied to the droplet depending on the type of sperm cell in it. Then, the machine can sort them into different collection tubes, based on the charge on the droplet, as it moves through a magnetic field.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#225

Post by bariumbitmap »

dbcurtis wrote: post #222
bariumbitmap wrote: post #205

One aspect the article does not fully address is why so many dairy farmers are using artificial insemination instead of bulls. Partly it's slightly enhanced milk production, but a bigger reason is the availability of sexed semen, allowing farmers to breed roughly 95% heifer calves instead of 50%. This is a big deal for a dairy farm's finances because a cow is much more valuable than a steer. https://www.agweb.com/art…

Ha. The number 1 reason AI is popular with dairy farmers? Dairy bulls are more dangerous than you can imagine. Holstein bulls, especially, have a bad, bad, attitude. 2000 pounds of territorial nastiness. Unrepentant killers. Plus, you are working with the cows twice a day, so it is easy to tell when they are in heat. Contrast with the Aberdeen Angus beef cattle that my father bred. Beef bulls are, for whatever reason…

That's a good point. I'd also say that Holstein cows are pretty scary; a cow can flip from "this human is fine" to "I'm going to protect my calf by trampling this human to death" with barely any warning.

Factors like floor material also matter. On wet concrete, work boots have decent traction but bull hooves don't, so a bull with a nose ring is a little bit less of a threat. On dirt or dry manure, though, watch out.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#226

Post by vonmoltke »

vfc1 wrote: post #184
vonmoltke wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most cases, this is actually done to create feed crops like soy and corn. Soy and corn, particularly corn, have many uses beyond animal feed. > Most of the agricultural fields in the world are used to feed animals either used for slaughter or for dairy and not to feed people directly. Please support that statement.

Here is a source: https://www.globalagriculture.org/report-topics/meat-and-ani... > Livestock is the world's largest user of land resources, with pasture and arable land dedicated to the production of feed representing almost 80% of the total agricultural land. One-third of global arable land is used to grow feed, while 26% of the Earth's ice-free terrestrial surface is used for grazing.

Non-arable land cannot be used to feed people directly, by definition. That makes your original statement misleading at best.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#227

Post by teh_klev »

dboreham wrote: post #31
teh_klev wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't strictly true (not in the UK anyway). I was out for a beer tonight and serendipitously bumped into the secretary for the Aberdeen Angus Cattle Society[0] and proceeded to have a discussion about the Society, cattle, beef production etc. You'd (and I was) be surprised to know that Aberdeen Angus sires impregnate dairy cattle for offspring that end up as prime steak. And this isn't just for burgers, it's for…

One of the best "I met a bloke down the pub" stories.

Why, thank you :)

My village pub is quite amazing, you meet all sorts of interesting people there. A couple of months ago I met a fund manager and author of "China, Trade and Power: Why the West's Economic Engagement Has Failed":

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1907994815

...which is well worth a read. That too was an interesting chat.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#228

Post by tectec »

bariumbitmap wrote: post #205

One aspect the article does not fully address is why so many dairy farmers are using artificial insemination instead of bulls. Partly it's slightly enhanced milk production, but a bigger reason is the availability of sexed semen, allowing farmers to breed roughly 95% heifer calves instead of 50%. This is a big deal for a dairy farm's finances because a cow is much more valuable than a steer. https://www.agweb.com/art…

This is not true. Artificial insemination was widely used long before sexed semen was available.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#229

Post by khawkins »

vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

>Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else.

>I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely unnecessary and with a tremendous environmental impact.

This has been standard operating procedure for nearly a century and has fed billions of people. Over that same time life expectancy has gone up significantly and milk remains one of the cheapest and most plentiful foods on the planet.

Your complains smell more like superstition than anything supported by scientific evidence.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#230

Post by eMSF »

vfc1 wrote: post #181
netcan wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Necessary/unnecessary, when it comes to food matkets, is a problematic way of thinking. It's ultimately preference, not necessity driven and our food culture is very complex. Completely necessity driven (calories, nutrients and such)... the food market could be much tinier than it is today. We'd be getting our animal proteins from insects, our fresh vegetables from a small collection of locally efficient species, etc…

There is this illusion in european countries that factory farming is a thing of the US, when in fact for example in Ireland factory farming it exists too - https://beyondthepaleireland.com/2017/07/28/factory-farms-on... And it couldn't be any other way, its economics. If one farmer starts feeding the animals with cheaper food and have better milk yielding cows, he would have a competitive advantage over other farmers…

Almost everything you listed in your opening post is all but completely absent here in cattle production, including soy, corn, hormones, antibiotics, and I could bet cows here don't descend from the same bulls either.

So yes, your little vegan rant is a thing of the US.

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