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Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

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Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#181

Post by vfc1 »

netcan wrote: post #171
vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

Necessary/unnecessary, when it comes to food matkets, is a problematic way of thinking. It's ultimately preference, not necessity driven and our food culture is very complex. Completely necessity driven (calories, nutrients and such)... the food market could be much tinier than it is today. We'd be getting our animal proteins from insects, our fresh vegetables from a small collection of locally efficient species, etc…

There is this illusion in european countries that factory farming is a thing of the US, when in fact for example in Ireland factory farming it exists too - https://beyondthepaleireland.com/2017/07/28/factory-farms-on...

And it couldn't be any other way, its economics. If one farmer starts feeding the animals with cheaper food and have better milk yielding cows, he would have a competitive advantage over other farmers, and start taking over a larger part of the market.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#182

Post by izzydata »

vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

I discovered not that long ago that it is normal to become lactose intolerant in adulthood after a prolonged period of not consuming dairy.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#183

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

irrational wrote: post #176
vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

But what will I put on my Lucky Charms if we don't have milk? Seriously, the worst thing for me about doing away with milk/cream/etc. would be having to get all new recipes. Especially for baking. Milk is in so very many recipes and you can't just switch it out for soy milk or almond milk.

Actually I'll bet you can, or just omit it or even replace it with water or some other water-based liquid. Very few baked good use milk in any meaningful way, which pretty much just leaves cheese and sauces. Of those, cheese is the hard one. I've heard there are vegan cheeses on the market now that don't suck but even assuming that is true they're probably still quite expensive.

P.S. Oh right, there's butter, but shortening has been around for ages and butter-flavored shortening about as long.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#184

Post by vfc1 »

vonmoltke wrote: post #178
vfc1 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> irresponsible production of plant based food (soil erosion, destruction of entire ecosystems and replacing them with plant fields In most cases, this is actually done to create feed crops like soy and corn. Most of the agricultural fields in the world are used to feed animals either used for slaughter or for dairy and not to feed people directly. Feeding the same amount of people directly instead of feeding animals…

> In most cases, this is actually done to create feed crops like soy and corn. Soy and corn, particularly corn, have many uses beyond animal feed. > Most of the agricultural fields in the world are used to feed animals either used for slaughter or for dairy and not to feed people directly. Please support that statement.

Here is a source: https://www.globalagriculture.org/report-topics/meat-and-ani...

> Livestock is the world's largest user of land resources, with pasture and arable land dedicated to the production of feed representing almost 80% of the total agricultural land. One-third of global arable land is used to grow feed, while 26% of the Earth's ice-free terrestrial surface is used for grazing.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#185

Post by vfc1 »

spion wrote: post #165
vfc1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I regularly order locally-produced milk from very small scale farmers Not a specialist here, but I think I'm generally well informed and just trying to use some common sense. You probably pay a bit more for that milk than at the supermarket, right? Most people in your country don't do what you do, they buy it at the supermarket. The dairy products at the supermarket simply don't come from those farms. Do you think…

Some things only really make sense in the US due to the heavy subsidizing of corn. You should definitely double-check your common sense, just in case (I'll check mine too)

Just checked. Apparently, one 5th of the EU budget goes to support livestock - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/12/nearly-a...

A lot of it under the form of crop subsidies:

> This land, and other targeted subsidies for livestock, is worth between €28-€32bn (£24-£27.9bn) in CAP direct payments per year for the animal farming sector, 18-20% of the EU’s total budget.

That seems like pretty heavy subsidizing to me, although in the US I have the impression that things are worse.

I think a lot of the europeans perception of the livestock industry comes from advertising, all those pictures on the supermarket of happy farmers next to happy cows and pigs, I think that's where a lot of it comes from.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#186

Post by irrational »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #183
irrational wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what will I put on my Lucky Charms if we don't have milk? Seriously, the worst thing for me about doing away with milk/cream/etc. would be having to get all new recipes. Especially for baking. Milk is in so very many recipes and you can't just switch it out for soy milk or almond milk.

Actually I'll bet you can, or just omit it or even replace it with water or some other water-based liquid. Very few baked good use milk in any meaningful way, which pretty much just leaves cheese and sauces. Of those, cheese is the hard one. I've heard there are vegan cheeses on the market now that don't suck but even assuming that is true they're probably still quite expensive. P.S. Oh right, there's butter, but sho…

Nah, I've tried since one of my kids is slightly lactose intolerant. Neither soy nor almond milk have proven to be suitable substitutes. It's not just the liquid, but something in the cow milk missing from the other milks.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#187

Post by Moru »

rimliu wrote: post #99
vfc1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calcium can be easily obtained from plant foods without any problem as well, and in a better form better managed by the human body - https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/calcium/ > "A meta-analysis of cow’s milk intake and hip fracture studies showed no significant protection" > "milk may sometimes increase bone and hip fracture rates" Milk and all it's derived products have lactose, so they should be avoided by people…

Don't you just love when opinions are presented as facts.

Or facts presented by lobbying money :-)

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#188

Post by vfc1 »

irrational wrote: post #176
vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

But what will I put on my Lucky Charms if we don't have milk? Seriously, the worst thing for me about doing away with milk/cream/etc. would be having to get all new recipes. Especially for baking. Milk is in so very many recipes and you can't just switch it out for soy milk or almond milk.

it's possible to bake some very tasty cakes without milk, but it involves trying new recipes and techniques.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#189

Post by selimthegrim »

vfc1 wrote: post #150
rgbrenner wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ drink fortified plant-milk” “ You can get all the nutrients that you need, calcium included from a plant-based diet. The only thing you need to supplement is B12” Plant based milk is fortified with calcium carbonate. You just told us to take a calcium supplement added to a liquid. That’s admitting it’s not possible to get enough calcium from plants. With that logic there’s a lot of food we don’t need.. everyone jus…

I don't think you need fortified milk either, but if you are worried about it you can take it, that's what I meant. There is no indication of lack of calcium in vegetarians or vegans, many studies have shown it. Most likely, its your expectation of how much calcium is actually needed and how essential dairy is that has been shapped through years of advertising and missinformation. Actually, its the opposite vegetaria…

An RCT for lactose would be good to check those results but I'd also like to see an analysis of possible confounding variables

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#190

Post by [deleted] »

asdfman123 wrote: post #163
vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

I've never seen myself as a vegetarian, but increasingly as I get older I can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of eating meat and my feelings about individual animals. I mean, my fiancee and I used to rescue shelter dogs, and I can't square that behavior of putting through chickens and cows through hell in factory farms. I still eat meat, but I feel like I'm getting closer to not doing that every day.

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