Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#291

Post by kharak » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 8:28 AM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #272

kharak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just finished the Youtube talk on degrading technology / knowledge. Really liked that perspective, although I disagree with quit a bit of Jonathan Blows points. About the challenge: I had the feeling, that you and a good chunk of readers here could go explain good deal of it all. But my point goes further: We all hit the wall of understanding sooner or later and all what is truly required is to know how use the techn…

> My brain obsesses with ideas that you would put more in the category of philosophy. It's what you think about when you have nothing to do or start daydreaming that's probably where your brain is best at. I never asked people in tech what they think about in those moments. I'm really, really curious about the answer. My experience with these is: I often think that I have some deep mathematical insight. The problem w…

For sure. Study the literature of your subject. The point is, what do you think about automatically when you don't focus on a specific task? My expectation is, that people who are great at what they do continue to think and daydream about their work. When I read about philosophy (or related subjects), I'm continuing to think about it for days or weeks. That doesn't happen with tech, although that's my daily business.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#292

Post by eukaryote » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:29 AM UTC

kypro wrote: post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

I am sorry to hear of your loss - losing a cat is losing a member of your family.

It is difficult to explain to others how much an animal means to your life. I have been far more distraught about a pet dying than human relations passing away!

Please be gentle on yourself and let yourself grieve. And reflect on the wonderful life your cat was able to live in your company.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#293

Post by derangedHorse » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 11:43 AM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #225

> researchers presented both depressed and non-depressed participants with a button and a green light. They then asked the participants to figure out to what degree their responses (pushing the button) controlled that light. Depressed participants were much better at judging the degree of their control, while participants who weren't depressed tended to assume that they had more control over the light than they actua…

The study wasn’t there to have participants judge whether the scenario was “depressing” or not, it was to evaluate the participant’s ability to accurately assess how much objective control over a light they had. This implies that depressed individuals in the study also had to accurately judge when the lights were directly correlated with the button press, and were actually under the control of the depressed participant (so what could be considered a “non-depressing” scenario by some).

That’s not to say that negative delusion doesn’t affect people with depression, but the article does lean closer to the theory that most of the fringe observations attributed to a negative outlook may in fact be closer to reality than a normal individuals.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#294

Post by derangedHorse » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 11:55 AM UTC

rtkaratekid wrote: post #102

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

Nothing’s wrong with some dark humor but careful not to also deliver the joke wit too much conviction. If everyone is kind of in on it or the observation can be substantiated then go for it, but the article also shouldn’t underplay the “shit-colored” glasses that some people with depression have (that may or may not color the perspective of the depressed as much as the delusions of the optimistic).

I say this because I have met people with depression who definitely do distort things constantly with no logical basis, and try and slip in their viewpoints as jokes. I’ve typically found these depressed individuals to be especially unpalatable when they stop making sense.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#295

Post by derangedHorse » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:08 PM UTC

mepiethree wrote: post #220

cryoshon wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

keeping my realist comments to myself took me more than two decades to become competent at. it'll take me another two decades to master. the trick is to understand that all people live in a marginal headspace where engagement with the nature of the world is heavily filtered and limited so that their psychology can continue to mostly function on a day to day basis. this is true whether you are a "realist" or "pessimis…

> some people don't see the humor in dark humor because they are unfamiliar with darkness Other people (like me) don't see the humor in dark humor because we live in a form of darkness all the time. My partner is bipolar, and I spend a several weeks a year literally talking her off the ledge. So if some edgy cynic makes a "joke" about suicide at work, I've probably already heard the punchline. And it dredges up a rem…

I think you still live in the case that he’s describing. I have someone similarly close to me who’s bipolar and both him and I still enjoy black humor. We learn to laugh at our past situations regardless (near-death encounters included).

It doesn’t make you more naive but it might be an indicator that you’re not able to cope with all the realities faced in your life all the time.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#296

Post by zzzeek » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:54 PM UTC

derangedHorse wrote: post #293

zzzeek wrote: post #225

> researchers presented both depressed and non-depressed participants with a button and a green light. They then asked the participants to figure out to what degree their responses (pushing the button) controlled that light. Depressed participants were much better at judging the degree of their control, while participants who weren't depressed tended to assume that they had more control over the light than they actua…

The study wasn’t there to have participants judge whether the scenario was “depressing” or not, it was to evaluate the participant’s ability to accurately assess how much objective control over a light they had. This implies that depressed individuals in the study also had to accurately judge when the lights were directly correlated with the button press, and were actually under the control of the depressed participa…

you can't observe solely that depressed individuals are more thoughtful or methodical when approached with a technical puzzle, and then jump to the headline, "Depressed People See the World More Realistically". It's like saying people who are very good at chess, video games, or engineering see the world more realistically. What does "more realistically" mean? What kind of "things" are we referring towards, how a bridge is built, if a certain person is a good person or not, what kind of politicians should be elected, if their artistic creations are worthwhile, is this plane is going to crash, is this current situation not so bad or not ? It's ridiculous to make such a sweeping statement, and especially regarding depressives, who almost by definition have a distorted view of reality.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#297

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:59 PM UTC

jrs235 wrote: post #277

dredmorbius wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more that the percentages, whilst adding up, don't match.

What if it's an easter egg / joke facilitated by Amazon employees... making their calculator [perhaps only for this book] perform incorrectly... hence underachieving?

Maybe it's an easter egg yolk.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#298

Post by longblack » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

derangedHorse wrote: post #295

mepiethree wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some people don't see the humor in dark humor because they are unfamiliar with darkness Other people (like me) don't see the humor in dark humor because we live in a form of darkness all the time. My partner is bipolar, and I spend a several weeks a year literally talking her off the ledge. So if some edgy cynic makes a "joke" about suicide at work, I've probably already heard the punchline. And it dredges up a rem…

I think you still live in the case that he’s describing. I have someone similarly close to me who’s bipolar and both him and I still enjoy black humor. We learn to laugh at our past situations regardless (near-death encounters included). It doesn’t make you more naive but it might be an indicator that you’re not able to cope with all the realities faced in your life all the time.

Both of these are just coping methods to either have the situation not exist or be trivialized for a period of time as to make living with it easier.

I don't know of any evidence to say either method is objectively better. By removing the situation from their thoughts/avoiding the topic they may be able to cope for just as long or longer than someone who addresses the situation through comedy.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#299

Post by tim333 » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 9:58 AM UTC

VvR-Ox wrote: post #278

tim333 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is getting better in many ways. Check out Pinker et al. eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ&t=770s

I don't see how he arrives at the conclusion there would be less pollution. Compared to when? What exactly would he define as such? I could counter all the stuff he proposes now with bringing in more of the bad news but I've already done that in another answer if you are interested. He can be optimistic as he is a white male with prosperity. This group is the one with the best conditions on earth - it's easy to enjoy…

Re a couple of your points:

The non white third world has been on a roll the last 30 years - China is way richer like 10x and even Africa is growing quickly now. Life expectancy way up.

Re pollution I imagine he's referring to urban air pollution which has got better since coal burning days. Not quite sure on that one.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#300

Post by tim333 » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 10:02 AM UTC

LeonB wrote: post #285

tim333 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least that stuff is dying out.

It's not "dying out" -- people are working very hard to reduce it. Sometimes we say things like "the world has changed" but the truth is that people have changed the world, through tremendous efforts. It's easy for a bystander to say "the problem just seemed to go away!" when the people who are doing the work can stare at them and say, "Ahem... it didn't just go away."

I don't deny that. Atrocities have reduced partly because people have worked hard to reduce them. Also technology has helped - you do bad stuff now and someone will film it on their phone, upload to youtube and the whole world can see and make a fuss.