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Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

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Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#41

Post by nomusuari »

t-away-123568 wrote: post #11

I have trouble with first world separatist/independence movements (Quebec, Scotland, Basque, Catalan, etc) where it seems there is little real present day issue other than what seems from the outside to be historical grievance and ego.

You would be a separatist too if you were stolen 10% of your gross domestic product every year; you would be a separatist too if every law passed by your parliment was rejected by your spanish masters; you would be a separatist too if your language was being constantly attacked; if your media was threatened to be shut down; if your health care system was attacked; the list goes on an on. For Catalonia it is either independence or submission. Easy choice if you ask me.

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#42

Post by nomusuari »

oliverx0 wrote: post #19
WanderPanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? If a locally grouped majority wants to seperate from a bigger structure they should be allowed to, everything else is evil.

What majority? In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence. It just so happens that the minority is louder.

Catalans did a referendum for independence. The Yes won by 90%. But the referendum was not legal according to the Spanish law. The spanish won't allow a legal referendum because they now there is a majority who want independence.

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#43

Post by squiggleblaz »

narag wrote: post #8
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

> Behind the scenes — where unknown administrators are accessing its data and devising and managing protest actions to distribute via the app — there may be an entirely centralized view of available human protest resources. But it’s not clear what the other side of the platform looks like. Our source was unable to show it to us or articulate what it looks like. It doesn’t seem as decentralized as advertised. The auth…

The authorities are the admins. Everybody knows Torra is behind the protests.

Torra is the Catalan premier isn't he? But the one to worry about is the Spanish PM. Even the Catalan authorities are subject to their anti-democratic, anti rule-of-law authoritarian whim and fancy: Some are living in exile and others are living in prison for work they did will Catalan authorities.

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#44

Post by squiggleblaz »

t-away-123568 wrote: post #11

I have trouble with first world separatist/independence movements (Quebec, Scotland, Basque, Catalan, etc) where it seems there is little real present day issue other than what seems from the outside to be historical grievance and ego.

It wasn't so long ago that the Catalan language was banned. People who were alive then are still alive today. It's more convenient to buy an umbrella on a sunny day. If they get independence today, they can spend years building up the strength they need to keep out those who would try to destroy their community later on. To describe anything as "historical grievance" that isn't happening right now is naive. It hasn't taken long for formerly second world states like Poland and Hungary to prove that democracy rule of law, even in the EU, aren't things that you can count on for decades to come.

In first world European cases, though, I think it's much less about independence and far more about being a top level subdivision of a country. Catalan, Flanders, Scotland etc want to become member-states in the EU with a seat at that table. They're after a seat at the table that decides the rules that govern them, and want to be able to defend their own interests. This is, after all, the point of a federation, so it's a natural thing to want: If it weren't a valid desire, the heads of government of the member states would not have a role in the EU. It's fairly common for territories to be cut up and distinct parts removed once they join a federation, especially when they're at least as large and diverse as Europe (take a squizz at India's states).

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#45

Post by pvaldes »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #44
t-away-123568 wrote: post #11

I have trouble with first world separatist/independence movements (Quebec, Scotland, Basque, Catalan, etc) where it seems there is little real present day issue other than what seems from the outside to be historical grievance and ego.

It wasn't so long ago that the Catalan language was banned. People who were alive then are still alive today. It's more convenient to buy an umbrella on a sunny day. If they get independence today, they can spend years building up the strength they need to keep out those who would try to destroy their community later on. To describe anything as "historical grievance" that isn't happening right now is naive. It hasn't…

>It wasn't so long ago that the Catalan language was banned

Catalan language was never banned

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#46

Post by pvaldes »

oliverx0 wrote: post #19
WanderPanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? If a locally grouped majority wants to seperate from a bigger structure they should be allowed to, everything else is evil.

What majority? In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence. It just so happens that the minority is louder.

> It just so happens that the minority is louder.

And more aggressive

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#47

Post by pvaldes »

kilburn wrote: post #24
oliverx0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What majority? In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence. It just so happens that the minority is louder.

> In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence. Citation needed. The main historical request by pro-independence people has always been for a vote to be held on the matter. Spain has always replied that there will never be such vote.

The results of the TRUE/LEGAL/non-SCAM elections are public for anybody to see it. Five millions of people can vote, 2 millions voted independentist parties. Three millions NOT. Is an easy calculus.

The majority of people do not want to lose their EU and spanish status, and they never wanted it.

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#48

Post by Oletros »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #43
narag wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The authorities are the admins. Everybody knows Torra is behind the protests.

Torra is the Catalan premier isn't he? But the one to worry about is the Spanish PM. Even the Catalan authorities are subject to their anti-democratic, anti rule-of-law authoritarian whim and fancy: Some are living in exile and others are living in prison for work they did will Catalan authorities.

> to their anti-democratic, anti rule-of-law authoritarian whim and fancy

From whom?

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#49

Post by Oletros »

pvaldes wrote: post #45
squiggleblaz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't so long ago that the Catalan language was banned. People who were alive then are still alive today. It's more convenient to buy an umbrella on a sunny day. If they get independence today, they can spend years building up the strength they need to keep out those who would try to destroy their community later on. To describe anything as "historical grievance" that isn't happening right now is naive. It hasn't…

>It wasn't so long ago that the Catalan language was banned Catalan language was never banned

Catalan language was banned from all administrations

Re: Catalan separatists have tooled up with decentralized app for civil disobedience

#50

Post by Oletros »

WanderPanda wrote: post #14
t-away-123568 wrote: post #11

I have trouble with first world separatist/independence movements (Quebec, Scotland, Basque, Catalan, etc) where it seems there is little real present day issue other than what seems from the outside to be historical grievance and ego.

Does it matter? If a locally grouped majority wants to seperate from a bigger structure they should be allowed to, everything else is evil.

The problem with Catalonia is that there is no majority for independence
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