Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 52 posts

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#31

Post by thrdOriginal »

Tycho wrote: post #27
thrdOriginal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So really you're asking "what's the point of art?" You could do worse than starting by reading "Art" by Clive Bell.

I don't think it comes to that. My working definition of art is 'human creativity in matters beyond functional necessity' - and the point (ideally) would be to selectively present phenomena/experience for the betterment of the audience. Here black and white images of everyday urban life have been selected as subject matter. Why? (obviously the images are well framed, but is that all there is to this art? Mechanical_F…

This is why I recommended Clive Bell: for him the subject matter is irrelevant and what matters is significant form - that combination of colors and shapes that gives rise to an aesthetic experience. Many would say that achieving this aesthetic experience itself is the point. Alternatively, others argue that the subject of art (in this case urban life) allow one to get at the capital-t Truth and meaning of a thing or culture. Heidegger's "The Origin of the Work of Art" examines this with regards to Van Gogh's "A Pair of Shoes," also an interesting read. Of course the real point for anyone is deeply personal, and if you're questioning what that point is, for you there probably isn't one. And that's ok too.

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#32

Post by Tycho »

thrdOriginal wrote: post #31
Tycho wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it comes to that. My working definition of art is 'human creativity in matters beyond functional necessity' - and the point (ideally) would be to selectively present phenomena/experience for the betterment of the audience. Here black and white images of everyday urban life have been selected as subject matter. Why? (obviously the images are well framed, but is that all there is to this art? Mechanical_F…

This is why I recommended Clive Bell: for him the subject matter is irrelevant and what matters is significant form - that combination of colors and shapes that gives rise to an aesthetic experience. Many would say that achieving this aesthetic experience itself is the point. Alternatively, others argue that the subject of art (in this case urban life) allow one to get at the capital-t Truth and meaning of a thing or…

That's why I asked the question - I genuinely wanted to know what other people valued in this collection. Just because I asked doesn't mean I don't have my own reasons for valuing/not-valuing it. I encourage anyone reading to say what they liked about it. Even just a poll of 'do you like them for the content' vs 'do you like them for the prettyness' would be interesting: sometimes it's just good to know what other people are thinking.

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#33

Post by jberryman »

edw519 wrote: post #7

Maier was untrained, but her images are artfully framed and detailed So much has been accomplished by those who were "untrained, but". I wonder if that says as much about the training as it does about the accomplishments.

I think the two are orthogonal. People who are driven to create art will keep doing it, growing, learning from other artists they come across; they might seek out more formal training as part of their journey or not.

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#34

Post by potatolicious »

jonsen wrote: post #14
edw519 wrote: post #7

Maier was untrained, but her images are artfully framed and detailed So much has been accomplished by those who were "untrained, but". I wonder if that says as much about the training as it does about the accomplishments.

It reminds me of the sculptor who said that he wasn't making the sculpture. "It's already in there. I'm just removing excess material." Sometimes I feel that our brains are like that. That some of our abilities are inherent. They just have to be set free.

> "That some of our abilities are inherent. They just have to be set free."

Heavily disagreed. I'm a street photographer myself (self-trained), and Maier's work has been inspiring both from an artistic and motivational perspective.

These abilities aren't "inherent". They take years and years of practice to hone, and a constant criticism of your own work (from yourself or otherwise).

I don't think any photographer ever picked up a camera, figured out how to work it, and then just started taking good work. Bear in mind also that I don't know a single street photographer who's able to shoot anything close to >5% keepers, much less show-ers.

When you view art like this, keep in mind that not only is it a highly selected slice of the artist's entire body of work, but also you are looking at what is most likely their top work at the prime of their abilities. What you don't see are the years of producing forgettable, boring, and downright bad work to get there.

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#35

Post by aero142 »

potatolicious wrote: post #34
jonsen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the sculptor who said that he wasn't making the sculpture. "It's already in there. I'm just removing excess material." Sometimes I feel that our brains are like that. That some of our abilities are inherent. They just have to be set free.

> "That some of our abilities are inherent. They just have to be set free." Heavily disagreed. I'm a street photographer myself (self-trained), and Maier's work has been inspiring both from an artistic and motivational perspective. These abilities aren't "inherent". They take years and years of practice to hone, and a constant criticism of your own work (from yourself or otherwise). I don't think any photographer eve…

The article talks about 100,000 negatives laying around. This was years of work and probably a daily activity. Hardly qualifies as "inherent".

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#36

Post by reneherse »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #15
Tycho wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just said 'philosphical question' so I wouldn't get downvoted for sounding cynical. Are you saying it is impossible to verbalize the 'point' of photography? Regardless, sometimes photographs capture remarkable events or spectacular scenes, in which cases the point could be easily understood as 'seeing things you would have liked to have seen but didn't get the chance' Now in this here collection, almost all the pho…

There are ten thousand answers to your question, but here's the most drab and pedantic of them: No, I absolutely cannot walk out onto the street and see a scene from the 1960s. There was a fun essay once where someone pointed out the value of photographing everyday objects. Tools, cars, clothes. These are the things that you'll most wish you'd photographed, because they are the most ephemeral. The Grand Canyon looks…

Movies that capture the essence of a time and place are great for this too. Just re-watched Hitchcock's Vertigo last night and wished I could have stepped back into the San Francisco of fifty years ago...

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#37

Post by potatolicious »

Tycho wrote: post #10

What's the point of photographs like this though? (philosophical question)

I love street photography - know many others who do also. Everyone has a different reason for being in this hobby, but FWIW I'll try to articulate my reasons:

- The capture of the preciousness of everyday life. So many of us wake up, trudge to work, trudge home, go get our groceries, etc etc all without ever noticing the little things in life. Part of why I do street photography is to catch and expose the fact that there are amazing things happening in the most mundane situations - that there are a million interactions and emotions crossing between people, even if, at the surface it's just a bunch of people on a subway train or a crowd walking down the street There are sparks of incredibly deep interaction, ephemeral and fleeting as they may be, all around us every minute. I like to capture and bring them out.

- Documentation with thought. We all have point and shoot cameras, and the prevalence of drunken pictures on Facebook is testament to the human desire to document. Most pictures though, aren't very well composed, and only convey the technical details of the event, and not the emotion that is undoubtedly embodied within. Part of why I love street is that it doesn't have to be extraordinary - sometimes you fall back to a role strictly that of the documentarian, but you can do it with more skill and thought than what most people can do.

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#38

Post by potatolicious »

aero142 wrote: post #35
potatolicious wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "That some of our abilities are inherent. They just have to be set free." Heavily disagreed. I'm a street photographer myself (self-trained), and Maier's work has been inspiring both from an artistic and motivational perspective. These abilities aren't "inherent". They take years and years of practice to hone, and a constant criticism of your own work (from yourself or otherwise). I don't think any photographer eve…

The article talks about 100,000 negatives laying around. This was years of work and probably a daily activity. Hardly qualifies as "inherent".

That reminds me of something I dislike about street photography - there are the Greats - people like Henri Cartier-Bresson, Robert Capa, Garry Winogrand, etc. that are positively worshipped in the street photography community.

To the point where anything that they ever produced is automatic gold. People don't seem to account for the fact that, like all other artists, 99% of what these people produced is somewhere between utter crap and not great.

But nope. If it was shot by HCB, it's automatically a divine work gifted to us by the Gods of Photography themselves. Ugh.

Re: Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time

#39

Post by tmsh »

Tycho wrote: post #10

What's the point of photographs like this though? (philosophical question)

The right photograph can rapidly affect one's entire outlook about something, without asking for so much as a look. It's highly efficient that way.

Incidentally, was going to comment that the story reminded me of a great Swedish film from a couple of years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everlasting_Moments

Post reply on HN