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On Recent Controversial Events

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Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#81

Post by QualityReboot »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #74
QualityReboot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society seems to be settling in on global norms due to the rise of social media. The more engaged you are with it, the more you know what's cancelled and what's trending. > Just pray you don't speak against mob or they'll cancel you. I think the prudent strategy is to understand what's being cancelled today and make sure you're on the right side of it. It's really pretty easy to do just by reading HN. Just know that…

> If you have views that disgust the mob, you're going to end up like RMS. Reading through those posts, is there any group in America that wouldn’t be angered by at least one of those posts?

I can think of a few: free speech advocates, libertarians, and long-time RMS supporters.

The thing I feel bad about with RMS is that he's clearly not able to read the room, which used to be considered quirky at best and unpleasant at worst, but now he finds himself unable to function at all in a society that he doesn't understand.

Most of the stuff he's saying would have been fringe in the 90s, but now it's unacceptable and worthy of exile.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#82

Post by mrkurt »

herostratus101 wrote: post #60
mantap wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't use your real name. You can post any controversial opinion you like on the internet but don't tie it back to your real identity if you don't want real world consequences. The internet is still a massive improvement to freedom of speech.

But it's much less likely that anyone will care what an anonymous alt has to say. And the far left is still doing everything in their power to shut down even anonymous speech they disapprove of.

I mean, that's the point. People care what RMS has to say in part because of the work of the FSF. Work other people are doing shouldn't necessarily amplify his stupid opinions.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#84

Post by mrkurt »

michannne wrote: post #39

> Most importantly, I believe we must find a way to stand firm for software freedom while also making a safe environment for victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse, gaslighting, and other deplorable actions. I understand and I fully stand by his belief that software freedom does not mean egalitarian and morally righteous principles have to be undermined in order to progress. However, it is not the FSF's job to make…

The problem is that RMS undermines the FSF's progress by being a dumbass. No one's expects him to solve a moral issue, they expect to him to avoid harming their mission by being a ridiculous troll.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#85

Post by dang »

lisp-missionary wrote: post #62
wmf wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about leaders at all but about the public and press who will listen to and amplify anything leaders say even if it's off-topic bullshit.

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads further into political or ideological flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#86

Post by zaptheimpaler »

wwarner wrote: post #80
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #37

> It really doesn't matter what your view about the controversial issue is; a leader who refuses to stop talking loudly about unrelated issues eventually creates an untenable distraction from .... I can understand his position, but this is part of the picture of a core problem in society today. Its NOT that leaders aren't allowed to speak about controversial issues - its that they aren't allowed to advocate ONE side…

I have no idea what you're talking about. Please tell me how taking a controversial position on sex advances the cause of software freedom. The free software movement isn't about providing a platform for people to discuss their sex lives. Imagine you're in court, say you've been charged with something extremely serious and you're completely innocent. Your lawyer decides to argue your case by referring bitterly to a d…

It doesn't advance the cause of software freedom. Should we all just shut up about anything that doesn't advance the cause of the organizations that we're part of?

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#87

Post by zaptheimpaler »

mrkurt wrote: post #79
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #37

> It really doesn't matter what your view about the controversial issue is; a leader who refuses to stop talking loudly about unrelated issues eventually creates an untenable distraction from .... I can understand his position, but this is part of the picture of a core problem in society today. Its NOT that leaders aren't allowed to speak about controversial issues - its that they aren't allowed to advocate ONE side…

If RMS had said "diversity is important but not our only goal", there wouldn't be any FSF drama. He didn't say that. His comments are the wrong comments to defend, I think, for reasons adequately explained in the article. Minimizing the harm powerful people have caused to their victims is not "dissent" we should avoid stifling.

I wasn't defending his comments. I do think he's an ahole. Not my point though.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#88

Post by mrkurt »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #87
mrkurt wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If RMS had said "diversity is important but not our only goal", there wouldn't be any FSF drama. He didn't say that. His comments are the wrong comments to defend, I think, for reasons adequately explained in the article. Minimizing the harm powerful people have caused to their victims is not "dissent" we should avoid stifling.

I wasn't defending his comments. I do think he's an a hole. Not my point though.

Fair enough! I think elevating his types of position to the level of "dissent" sounds like a defense, because dissent is something I think is admirable.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#89

Post by wwarner »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #86
wwarner wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Please tell me how taking a controversial position on sex advances the cause of software freedom. The free software movement isn't about providing a platform for people to discuss their sex lives. Imagine you're in court, say you've been charged with something extremely serious and you're completely innocent. Your lawyer decides to argue your case by referring bitterly to a d…

It doesn't advance the cause of software freedom. Should we all just shut up about anything that doesn't advance the cause of the organizations that we're part of?

FSF board members should.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#90

Post by mthoms »

lisp-missionary wrote: post #59
rmtech wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, it's clear that he has some unorthodox views, though all of them are backed by a degree of logic that most people don't apply to these things. I wouldn't personally touch any of these topics. Too controversial, no gain. But I can't really fault his logic. Of course, social and sexual morality runs on feelings rather than logic, and perhaps that's what RMS doesn't get!

I think what Stallman doesn't get is the same thing that I don't get, why should he at all have to be concerned with the feelings or even thoughts of everyone else in the entire world when speaking his mind. What makes other people's feelings or even thoughts so much more important that action should be taken against him if he's honest about what he thinks. By the way, some of the comments he's being demonized for wo…

>why should he at all have to be concerned with the feelings or even thoughts of everyone else in the entire world when speaking his mind

He's absolutely free to speak his mind. Similarly, people and organizations are free to disassociate with him if they find his opinions offensive (or even just distracting).

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