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On Recent Controversial Events

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Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#31
post #10

> The question is whether an organization should have a designated leader who is on a sustained, public campaign advocating about an unrelated issue that many consider controversial. I don't understand this. Are people in prominent positions not allowed to have opinions or interests outside of their job? As long as RMS wasn't actively using his power/influence as head of the FSF to advance his odd-ball views I really…

The problem is people don't want to associate with an organization lead by someone they have problems with, and a lot of people have problems with his views/behavior. The struggle of the FSF is difficult as it is. He doesn't have to be actively using power/influence.

edited phrasing

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#32

>human sexual behavior not a topic on which RMS has adequate expertise Ouch!

I think that's factually accurate. He's not a professor of sexology and (to my knowledge) has never pursued any formal study of the topic.

Not everybody needs to be Dr. Ruth, but in some sense, Stallman going on about sex topics when he's not is as much a problem as Sagan once going on about the "reptile brain" without considering how much of the neuroscience he was contemporary to had already disproved that hypothesis.

If you're going to have strong opinions on something and want to maintain your credibility in general, at least find a trustworthy and informed advisor on the topic.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#33
> organizations need not and should not elevate spokespeople and leaders who speak regularly on unrelated issues that organizations find do not advance their mission, and/or that alienate important constituents. I, like many other software freedom leaders, curtail my public comments on issues not related to FOSS. (Indeed, I would not even be commenting on this issue if it had not become a central issue of concern to the software freedom community.)

I really respect this. Kuhn is articulating a principle here and then gives an example of how he himself makes a sacrifice to adhere to this principle. This makes him much more credible to me than if he was using the principle solely as an instrument against others.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#35

> In fact, RMS' views and statements posted on stallman.org about sexual morality escalated for the worse over the last few years. Each word is a linked to a comment, some of them fairly eye opening.

yes, it's clear that he has some unorthodox views, though all of them are backed by a degree of logic that most people don't apply to these things.

I wouldn't personally touch any of these topics. Too controversial, no gain. But I can't really fault his logic. Of course, social and sexual morality runs on feelings rather than logic, and perhaps that's what RMS doesn't get!

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#36

> organizations need not and should not elevate spokespeople and leaders who speak regularly on unrelated issues that organizations find do not advance their mission, and/or that alienate important constituents. I, like many other software freedom leaders, curtail my public comments on issues not related to FOSS. (Indeed, I would not even be commenting on this issue if it had not become a central issue of concern to…

Is this a good pattern though? Seems to me like a low standard for our leaders. You should be able to do more than one thing at once.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#37
> It really doesn't matter what your view about the controversial issue is; a leader who refuses to stop talking loudly about unrelated issues eventually creates an untenable distraction from ....

I can understand his position, but this is part of the picture of a core problem in society today.

Its NOT that leaders aren't allowed to speak about controversial issues - its that they aren't allowed to advocate ONE side of an issue, while the other side is perfectly OK. You probably shouldn't say "diversity is important but not our only goal" as a CEO, but you CAN say "diversity is the best". That kind of large scale censorship only stifles dissent without changing the dissenters mind. Which is a state of affairs the far left happily accepts - "toxic people dont deserve a voice". Just pray you don't speak against mob or they'll cancel you. Better yet, just don't even think those unthinkable thoughts. Submit to the collective. All your opinions can be inferred from your tribe anyways. You don't really exist, only your tribe does.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#38
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except reading the links and keeping the timestamps in mind pretty much the opposite occurred. In 2016 he was blabbing about bestiality and pedophilia / rape of minors and excusing it, but later on he was mostly talking about not calling 18yos children, and saying that not all 'Sexual assault' is equal and different words should be used to describe different actions, he even provides a pretty logical argument for thi…

Regardless of how his stated views changed over time, the article is more about how such outside-the-mainstream views end up being a significant distraction from the already (unrelated) outside-the-mainstream views of the FSF. Even were he to turn out to be an incredible coder and lover of open source, I also wouldn't expect the FSF to hire David Duke as a spokesman because the combination of two unrelated advocacy p…

I think we need to keep in mind that RMS was posting this stuff very publicly all the while FSF was a runaway success. If RMS were being nominated to lead the FSF today, sure it might be appropriate to point out that he seems like a wack-job. However, as it stands we've lost one of the most impactful thought leaders of the past several decades over some mudslinging and theoretical "distraction".

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#39
> Most importantly, I believe we must find a way to stand firm for software freedom while also making a safe environment for victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse, gaslighting, and other deplorable actions.

I understand and I fully stand by his belief that software freedom does not mean egalitarian and morally righteous principles have to be undermined in order to progress.

However, it is not the FSF's job to make sure those values are upheld in every facet of moral righteousness. The goal is clear: make and keep software free as in liberty. That's it. Anything else should be completely within the realm of personal viewpoints.

I completely and wholeheartedly stand by the fact that we as a society need to deal with sexual violence much better than we are currently doing so.

Not an ounce of my being, however, places the burden on dealing with this onto Stallman's, or Kuhn's, or any other FSF member's shoulder. Help if you can. Help if you want, but if your job is to make software free, you're doing great. If you can solve other moral issues while doing so, even better, but it's not required.

Re: On Recent Controversial Events

#40
post #10

> The question is whether an organization should have a designated leader who is on a sustained, public campaign advocating about an unrelated issue that many consider controversial. I don't understand this. Are people in prominent positions not allowed to have opinions or interests outside of their job? As long as RMS wasn't actively using his power/influence as head of the FSF to advance his odd-ball views I really…

> As long as RMS wasn't actively using his power/influence as head of the FSF to advance his odd-ball views I really don't see what the problem is.

Let me reverse that, if Stallman weren't heading up the FSF, would anyone give one iota of damn about his other oddball views?

Of course not. They would dismiss him as a nobody.

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