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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

propublica.org

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#361

Post by JoeAltmaier »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #313
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 'volunteer' fire service out here in the country. And installed my own sewer. Police are essentially non-existent out here - I see a patrol car maybe once a year go by. And the USPS has been going broke for decades now. Not a good example of a well-run service.

USPS requires Congressional approval to set rates (as well as pension funding requirements). Your complaint is with your representatives, not USPS itself.

My complaint is with 'government-run businesses', which will always have such issues. It stems from not being responsible for efficiency or profitability.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#362

Post by scarejunba »

khuey wrote: post #221
mars4rp wrote: post #193

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a…

Is CalFile an open source project that anyone can contribute to (and if so where do I go?) or is the FTB paying you to develop it as a closed-source product?

Seconded. I wouldn't mind contributing to it. Maybe if even the rules engine was released.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#363

Post by lutorm »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #292
toomuchtodo wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am tired of for-profit companies hamstringing government using bribes to representatives and funding lobbyists from delivering inexpensive or free services to citizens. If someone wants to pay TurboTax, that is fine. If someone wants to continue to support their efforts to stymie government from delivering said services for free, they should be tarred and feathered. Intuit's tax products are regulatory capture, pla…

Hm that's been a big issue for maybe 200 years. Should the government start its own companies? What happened to the free market? How does a 'free' government company respond to competition (since they have no pressure to be profitable)?

It's not a right to be free from competition from the government. The reason we allow corporations is so they can serve the public good, but if the public good would be better served by the government providing that service then there's no reason society shouldn't do that.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#364

Post by so33 »

rubicon33 wrote: post #283
xivzgrev wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude I salute you. There are so many edge cases to support. For number 2 can you import fed return with calfile? IRS free returns going down too so you are not alone: https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Free_File_Program_Is_Failin... This is a large reason why Prorepublica keeps digging at this - it’s fucking crazy actual free filing is going down while these paid shenanigan products are holding strong with their ginorm…

Is it really as simple as that? Budget trumps all? With all due respect to the OP, most state run software operations are complete, utter, garbage. I'd happily pay money to avoid some of the clunky, poor UI/UX, and downright broken web tools that the state of California produces. TurboTax on the other hand, is a relatively nice experience.

> TurboTax on the other hand, is a relatively nice experience.

For this tax year I used TurboTax. I have a relatively simple return, but editing stock sales was extremely tedious and I was constantly upsold on random products when I just wanted to go to the e-file page.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#365

Post by toomuchtodo »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #361
toomuchtodo wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USPS requires Congressional approval to set rates (as well as pension funding requirements). Your complaint is with your representatives, not USPS itself.

My complaint is with 'government-run businesses', which will always have such issues. It stems from not being responsible for efficiency or profitability.

This is a strawman argument. Being "government run" does not automatically equate to being irresponsible or inefficient. Your complaint holds no water: Social Security and Medicare are incredibly efficient programs for their scale, and both wildly popular with their participants (per Pew Research as well as direct survey data from SSA and HHS). If they can achieve such results, why would other large orgs such as the IRS not? Rhetorical of course! They can, with proper political and logistical support (as has been seen with USDS/18F executing at the IRS, DHS, and VA).

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#366

Post by kerkeslager »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #292
toomuchtodo wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am tired of for-profit companies hamstringing government using bribes to representatives and funding lobbyists from delivering inexpensive or free services to citizens. If someone wants to pay TurboTax, that is fine. If someone wants to continue to support their efforts to stymie government from delivering said services for free, they should be tarred and feathered. Intuit's tax products are regulatory capture, pla…

Hm that's been a big issue for maybe 200 years. Should the government start its own companies? What happened to the free market? How does a 'free' government company respond to competition (since they have no pressure to be profitable)?

> How does a 'free' government company respond to competition (since they have no pressure to be profitable)?

The leadership of government organizations has pressure to get re-elected, or to get someone from their party elected.

I'm not sure whether you are simply ignorant how representative democracy is supposed to work, or whether you're feigning ignorance. Is it really so unfathomable that people might be motivated by something other than financial gain? Are we expected to take anything else you say seriously if this is the starting point of your ideology?

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#367

Post by so33 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #361
toomuchtodo wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USPS requires Congressional approval to set rates (as well as pension funding requirements). Your complaint is with your representatives, not USPS itself.

My complaint is with 'government-run businesses', which will always have such issues. It stems from not being responsible for efficiency or profitability.

But USPS is focused on efficiency and profitability. They have streamlined many of their operations and created new profit making initiatives (e.g. Informed Delivery), all while having the mandate that mail cost the same from Alaska to Florida as from New York to DC. They just have the aforementioned budget burden to fund retirement funds no other organization, public or private, would ever bear upon themselves voluntarily. And they can’t set their own rates. And they have to deliver to every address once a day six days a week no matter what.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#368

Post by namdnay »

8ytecoder wrote: post #315
mars4rp wrote: post #193

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a…

Given that open-source has given tough competition to every area of business software what, in your opinion, is the reason for a lack of open-source options to prepare taxes?

I don’t think your assertion is true. 99% of business software is helped by open source, not in competition with it. Business software = business logic = people gathering requirements. Not really compatible with open source

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#369

Post by AcerbicZero »

I'm likely in the minority here, but as a product TurboTax hasn't really bothered me that much. It makes filling my taxes pretty easy, and saves most of the info year of year so I don't have to re-enter it. Compared to the thousands of dollars in taxes I've paid, the $100 or so turbo tax gets doesn't seem too bad.

My issue is with all this is pretty simple - I pay too much in tax, and/or the quality of government those taxes are buying is subpar at best. I also strongly suspect leaving the government in charge of comping up with a solution to filing taxes electronically would continue the trend of disappointment.

If my choice is between paying a private company a couple bucks to make my interaction with the government easier, or going back to the old paper way of doing things until the government gets its shit together.....well I'm going to stick with the former, unless I'm missing something here?

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#370

Post by mars4rp »

komali2 wrote: post #216
mars4rp wrote: post #193

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a…

Can you expand on why people are "afraid" of lobbyists? The way you write that makes it sound like the elected officials the lobbyists are trying to convince, are afraid of those same lobbyists. What I assume you meant is that ground troops like you are afraid lobbyists will notice your work and pay more attention to your given team of elected politicians. Can you help me understand?

so let me elaborate a bit, all the people that work on this agencies are employees, they are not politicians.

If a politician influenced by a lobbyist start to question the decision of an agency, have hearings, grill the management on the reasons they decided to waste tax payers money, etc. that is not fun for those employees.

There is no incentive for that trouble and people try to avoid it as much as possible.

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