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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#341

Post by marcosdumay »

robert_foss wrote: post #197
lqet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for El ektronische St euer er klärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices. OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], wh…

Having moved from Sweden to Germany I appreciate Elster existing (and not being solely paper based unlike the other many many German beaurocratic exercises one has to Wade through). However it misses the most important part. In Sweden your tax declaration comes pre-populated with data they already have, like salary/pension/savings/stock sales/etc., and you can either just accept it as it is or make changes to the alr…

In Brazil we have that option, but one must have a cryptographic token accepted by the government to access it. People usually don't have them, while companies are required to have one.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#342

Post by epx »

robert_foss wrote: post #197
lqet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for El ektronische St euer er klärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices. OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], wh…

Having moved from Sweden to Germany I appreciate Elster existing (and not being solely paper based unlike the other many many German beaurocratic exercises one has to Wade through). However it misses the most important part. In Sweden your tax declaration comes pre-populated with data they already have, like salary/pension/savings/stock sales/etc., and you can either just accept it as it is or make changes to the alr…

Brazil is going that way too. Currently only public servants and people with an expensive X.509 certificate get this pre-populated tax return, though.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#343

Post by pfranz »

pwg wrote: post #258
gugagore wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the pain of filing is connected to the pain of spending money. If a politician raises taxes, and all it does is change the value of a annual withdrawal on your account, I think that pain would be the same, regardless of difficulty of filing. The pain is estimating and filing 4 times a year.

Here in the US there are actually individuals who view their IRS tax refund check that they get back each year from filing their taxes as "getting free money from the government". They simply do not understand the fact that, no, that check is not "free government money" but is instead money that the government took, held onto for free all year, interest free, and then let you have back after you filed the proper form…

Conversely, on my property tax they itemize where the money goes. Presumably showing what I'm getting for my tax money. Or maybe just making me angry how much local schools cost if I don't have kids? (that was the vibe I got when living in FL)

I appreciate transparency like that, but I hate other examples that add additional steps or paperwork to the process.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#344

Post by marcosdumay »

Anarch157a wrote: post #28
lqet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for El ektronische St euer er klärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices. OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], wh…

Here in Brazil the mascot of the Income Tax is a Lion, it's of an old ad campaign the government ran, comparing taxes with lions and saying "the lion is tame".

It's because of an old popular joke in that the government is a lion that will always take a lion-sized bite from your income.

It's really an old joke. On any reference I have ever found, no matter how old, the joke is already old and the readership is expected to know it.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#345

Post by vonmoltke »

snuxoll wrote: post #210
javagram wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS doesn’t have all the relevant information though. A lot of deductions and credits are based on events or transactions that aren’t reported to the IRS. State and local tax deduction, charity deduction, medical expense deduction, and so on. There are also various penalties that need to be self reported - the IRS can find them, but only if they do an audit and are looking through bank accounts and other stuff th…

> I’m not sure if the IRS even knows how many kids you have for the child tax credit. How would they? You have to report the SSN of your dependents on your tax return, still open to fraud but it’s not like you just fill in a number. This was actually a huge issue for the IRS before they co-opted the SSN as a tax identifier, and pretty much the only reason people get one assigned at birth instead of when they begin wo…

> You have to report the SSN of your dependents on your tax return

The point is that the IRS does not have this information available to pre-fill your form with.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#346

Post by kansface »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #20

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me. Can the government please make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploit…

> Can the government please make something that's easy to use?

Many law makers don't want the Government to make this process easy on the assumption that the easier it is for the Government to tax, the more it will do so.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#347

Post by topkai22 »

komali2 wrote: post #216
mars4rp wrote: post #193

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a…

Can you expand on why people are "afraid" of lobbyists? The way you write that makes it sound like the elected officials the lobbyists are trying to convince, are afraid of those same lobbyists. What I assume you meant is that ground troops like you are afraid lobbyists will notice your work and pay more attention to your given team of elected politicians. Can you help me understand?

A lot of people are saying that the fear comes from lobbyists and the interest groups they represent giving money to opponents. That is partially true, but money is just part of the overall influence that the interest groups lobbyists represent wield.

In the case of ReadyReturn, one of the key players is Grover Norquist, an anti-tax activist. (see https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t... for some of the older history here) He has this incredible network of anti-tax groups, media figures, and others that can be activated to attack and take down politicians, particularly republicans, without spending a dime (altough they also have money to spend).

It might seem wrong, but it is fundamentally the same mechanism by which liberal action networks (like human rights campaign or NARAL) drive their political influence as well.

It is these networks of influence that politicians really fear, because they are so much more effective then money.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#348

Post by gugagore »

pwg wrote: post #258
gugagore wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the pain of filing is connected to the pain of spending money. If a politician raises taxes, and all it does is change the value of a annual withdrawal on your account, I think that pain would be the same, regardless of difficulty of filing. The pain is estimating and filing 4 times a year.

Here in the US there are actually individuals who view their IRS tax refund check that they get back each year from filing their taxes as "getting free money from the government". They simply do not understand the fact that, no, that check is not "free government money" but is instead money that the government took, held onto for free all year, interest free, and then let you have back after you filed the proper form…

I am not denying your experience, but I am from the US and this is not my experience at all. It's called a "refund".

Which individuals? How do you know these people?

Also I don't agree with your perspective on tax withholding. If you don't want your employer to withhold taxes, I think they have to stop withholding taxes. It's a convenient default, in my opinion.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#349

Post by GeneralTspoon »

r0m4n0 wrote: post #158

A few weeks ago I started an LLC in New York. I followed all the simple instructions online and the process was actually very straightforward and easy. I had an official digital copy of proof my LLC existed within an hour. I went to sleep with and thought that there is hope for our government. Within a few days I received a letter from a private company informing me that unless I pay them $1000 to publish the name of…

In the UK, if you want to close a company you must do the same (pay ~£300 to post notice in a paper that your company is closing).

I think the idea is that anyone who the company owes money to can file a claim before any remaining funds are distributed.

Of course there are much better and more cost-effective ways of doing this (even pre-internet). It’s just absurd rent-seeking by unproductive leeches on the economy as far as I can tell.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#350

Post by delfinom »

paulrpotts wrote: post #171
chrismeller wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, there’s a paper form you can fill out and send in for free if you’re that angry about it.

There have been a couple of years where I worked several different out-of-state contract gigs, and a couple of years where I received unemployment due to me from an out-of-state employer. I was not trying to do anything monstrously complicated, nor was I some millionaire - I just did the jobs that I was able to land to feed my family and pay our mortgage. I went to experienced tax professionals to help me with those…

And you are a special case that does truely need an accountant to fill out their paperwork. Majority of people do not.
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