Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home • Hacker News Board

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#411

Post by Marsymars » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #136

astral303 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google Maps not saving your history as you described is an incredibly bad, frustrating experience. FFS, my phone has gigs of RAM, why can’t Google Maps remember the address I searched for ten minutes ago? One minute ago? This is 2019. It has been this bad for a decade plus. Embarrassing IMO and demonstrates true UX myopia and true UX incompetence.

Personally I switched to Apple Maps after the iOS 13 release and haven't looked back. Because it's integrated into the OS, Apple Maps can look into your messages and auto-complete addresses from that. It can also save places without you signing into an account. The only thing I miss is google's "offline" mode. I live in Michigan, and I frequently go on trips up north into heavily wooded areas. I don't always get cell…

I would pay Apple a monthly fee to get Apple Maps on Android.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#412

Post by Forbo » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

BlueTemplar wrote: post #185

SamBam wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything in the parent comment that says this is a Google-only issue. Also, the Netflix and Amazon examples don't seem to be in the same category, to me. Every time you interact with Netflix and Amazon, you are doing so deliberately. You are choosing exactly what to give them. You can easily pick another service. Always-on listening devices, on the other hand, are taking data that you did not choose to gi…

Amazon is the only one of the GAFAMs that it's not practical to boycott : boycotting Amazon Web Services breaks a large part of the Web.

Trying to boycott any service that uses reCAPTCHA is pretty impractical, as well. Lots of stuff also uses the Google hosted AJAX libraries.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#413

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

sorenn111 wrote: post #236

BlueTemplar wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the only one of the GAFAMs that it's not practical to boycott : boycotting Amazon Web Services breaks a large part of the Web.

May I say that I love your use of GAFAM. I always thought FAANG was silly and Netflix was not like the others and was included just to make a good acronym

If I'm not mistaken FAANG is more about the Silicon Valley (and the people that might be interested in living/working there). Meanwhile GAFAM is more from the point of view of the users, also Netflix#, as a non-US online presence is pretty new, and let's face it, is only about a specific kind of entertainment - one might then add Valve/Steam as well !

It does bother me when politicians say GAFA and leave out Microsoft (but not Apple??)

#Netflix did play an important part in adding DRM to the Web specifications...

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#414

Post by Sargos » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

pcnix wrote: post #406

Sargos wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a society essentially controlled by the AI, as it will be above us. This is the highest probability of the realistic outcome of AGI as it will advance in capabilities so much and so rapidly that we won't be able to keep up. I personally think it will be benevolent and care for us like we do for our pets which won't necessarily be a bad thing.

If you're interested in reading about AI goal theory further, I suggest Superintelligence, orthogonality and CEV as books/topics you could explore.

These are fantastic recommendations, thanks!

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#415

Post by kcdev » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

You said it yourself: smartphones are already capable of it. So what difference does it make if you add an Alexa or Google Home? At least those aren't going everywhere with you. This is the defeatist attitude, but this tech is probably here to stay. We just need to do our best to make sure companies do the right thing.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#416

Post by antisthenes » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

khelenek wrote: post #284

These comments are lunacy. He's suggesting etiquette if someone puts a Nest recording device (not a thermostat) inside their house purposefully, probably for security purposes. Security cameras have existed for decades and nothing has changed here.

Security cameras usually monitor the exterior of the house for bad agents.

Always-on listening devices and interior cameras are absolutely a new thing and to pretend like they aren't is what's actual lunacy.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#417

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

oppositelock wrote: post #304

saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

What does having a Nest thermostat get you? I'm a tech dude, I build modern software, but I live in a dumb, old fashioned house. My programmable Honeywell thermostat, which has no internet connection, does a perfectly fine job of keeping my home the right temperature. My door locks use a key, and keys have great battery life, and my smoke detectors beep instead of speaking to me. What am I missing by not having inter…

I live in an area where I can go from heat to cool needs in a single day, and I have pets with sensitive temperature needs. So I have a thermostat I can control via the Internet.

However, it is not a Nest, and only I can control it. It's not connected to any account or cloud service. It doesn't have direct IP connectivity at all, so it can't be turned into a part of a botnet. And it works just fine without the Internet.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#418

Post by phjesusthatguy3 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

greggman2 wrote: post #142

saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

I hate not having privacy but I don't understand singling Google out here. Siri is listening (both on phones and on Apple' homepod), Alexa is listening, Cortana is listening, ... I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off) than I do about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch. Amazon knowing every product I order. My Credit Card and Bank company knowing every business I transact with. My Mac a…

"singling Google out here" because TFA is about Google.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#419

Post by groby_b » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

nwalker85 wrote: post #393

exclusiv wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A programmable keypad is nice. I have a Z-wave one which can notify my Smarthings hub which notifies me when it's locked or unlocked. The Nest thermostat allows me to control the heat remotely. These two things are great for rental properties. Guests often forget to lock the door, I have records of when guests or maintenance people are coming or going, I can adjust the heat to 55 when nobody is there which saves a lo…

I have kids. They forget to turn off lights, mess with my thermostat, leave doors unlocked. The peace of mind of being able to remotely check/access/control all of this is great.

Or you could spend time with your kids, educating them to actually function as adults.

But I suppose conditioning them for life in a surveillance society does that job.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#420

Post by sailfast » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

eslaught wrote: post #335

mey wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value privacy, my nest thermostat is the only IoT device in my house that talks to the internet or can be accessed remotely without a VPN. What I find most valuable is it programs itself. Am I cold? Turn it up a bit, hot? Turn it down a bit. Suddenly I have stopped having to adjust it at all. Even as life has changed. It has some nice other features, such as preheating/cooling, telling me how long it will take to g…

Ok, but what on this list actually requires an internet connection? I guess the integration with your power company. But aside from that? You could put a local AI model into the Nest, and it shouldn't need to talk to the internet at all. It can keep the data locally, and be programmed to draw inferences without help from the mothership. For some reason we've decided it's ok to gratuitously connect everything to the i…

How much would a localized AI cost to implement, and would you pay it for a thermostat? As a result, you're lowering your one-time capital cost by connecting to the internet instead, perhaps?

I like that I can check on the house from my phone if one travels for multiple weeks at a time. I also like warming up the house before I get home late in the evening. Granted, I've now got a VPN / firewall setup that would do this without an internet connection, but I'd still need some form of wireless connectivity to execute the changes from my mobile device.