How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
quantamagazine.org
How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
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Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#2Wonderfully informative! Love this author since his days writing about puzzles for the New York Times!
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#3This article seems to be starting from a conclusion and then working its way up to an explanation. That's not how science works. There is lots of experimental evidence that on a quantum scale there is inherent randomness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation
Anyone can claim that there are deterministic causal factors leading to what appears to be randomness. What are those factors? I could claim that invisible unicorns are the underlying factor for deciding which slit the photon goes through and this explanation wouldn't be any less supported than the reasoning presented in this article.
> it might come from subtle factors, including, perhaps, the exact initial location of the marble, its angle of motion, or the manner in which the marble bounces off the subtle imperfections of the peg’s surface. These are all deterministic factors with a clear causal chain that decides which way the marble goes. The path selected seems random to us only because of our ignorance of these details.
One thought experiment that comes to mind is, imagine a perfect Galton board where all the pegs are perfectly identical in a closed perfectly isometric system. Without subtle factors like air currents or imperfections in the pegs or the marbles, where does the marble land? I think personally if all other factors are ruled out the thought experiment reduces to the double slit experiment.
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#4This article seems to be starting from a conclusion and then working its way up to an explanation. That's not how science works. There is lots of experimental evidence that on a quantum scale there is inherent randomness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Anyone can claim that there are deterministic causal factors leading to what appears to be randomness. What are those factors? I could claim that in…
>Without subtle factors like air currents or imperfections in the pegs or the marbles, where does the marble land?
If everything is truly perfect, it lands on the first peg.
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#5Is this really any different than the exhaustive investigation of automata by Stephen Wolfram?
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#6This article seems to be starting from a conclusion and then working its way up to an explanation. That's not how science works. There is lots of experimental evidence that on a quantum scale there is inherent randomness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Anyone can claim that there are deterministic causal factors leading to what appears to be randomness. What are those factors? I could claim that in…
But that is clearly the wrong reduction. Start position will determine the final position every time if we assume a perfect board. Marbles are not wave particles. You get a distribution based on the input distribution.
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#7This article seems to be starting from a conclusion and then working its way up to an explanation. That's not how science works. There is lots of experimental evidence that on a quantum scale there is inherent randomness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Anyone can claim that there are deterministic causal factors leading to what appears to be randomness. What are those factors? I could claim that in…
But that is clearly the wrong reduction. Start position will determine the final position every time if we assume a perfect board. Marbles are not wave particles. You get a distribution based on the input distribution.
It's a thought experiment. If we assume a perfect board with perfect marble with all other factors like imperfections/air currents removed and with the same initial position, and let's say the perfectly spherical marble hits the peg dead center every single time, does the marble fall to the left side of the peg or right or does it not fall to the either side?
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#8This article seems to be starting from a conclusion and then working its way up to an explanation. That's not how science works. There is lots of experimental evidence that on a quantum scale there is inherent randomness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Anyone can claim that there are deterministic causal factors leading to what appears to be randomness. What are those factors? I could claim that in…
>Without subtle factors like air currents or imperfections in the pegs or the marbles, where does the marble land? If everything is truly perfect, it lands on the first peg.
Does it fall to the left side of the peg, the right side, or does it stay on the peg?
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that is clearly the wrong reduction. Start position will determine the final position every time if we assume a perfect board. Marbles are not wave particles. You get a distribution based on the input distribution.
It's a thought experiment. If we assume a perfect board with perfect marble with all other factors like imperfections/air currents removed and with the same initial position, and let's say the perfectly spherical marble hits the peg dead center every single time, does the marble fall to the left side of the peg or right or does it not fall to the either side?
Assuming it lands perfectly in the center, it rests, perfectly balanced on the peg.
Re: How Randomness Can Arise from Determinism
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a thought experiment. If we assume a perfect board with perfect marble with all other factors like imperfections/air currents removed and with the same initial position, and let's say the perfectly spherical marble hits the peg dead center every single time, does the marble fall to the left side of the peg or right or does it not fall to the either side?
Assuming it lands perfectly in the center, it rests, perfectly balanced on the peg.
What if the size of the peg is really tiny, let's say a few atoms and what if the marble was also very tiny, a single atom? What would happen then?