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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

propublica.org

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#231

Post by vonmoltke »

dangus wrote: post #21
u801e wrote: post #3

Free fillable forms[1] has been around for a number of years and van be used by anyone regardless of income level. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable...

They are still an unnecessarily painful solution. I did do these last year to finally kick TurboTax to the curb. However, they’re shamefully complex especially considering how they’re already a piece of software. They barely do basic arithmetic. The restrictions are entirely artificial, and the system is gamed so that you either spend a lot of time learning tax form rules and lingo or you just pay TurboTax to do it f…

> The IRS could very easily send a pre-filled tax form for most Americans to verify and sign like other countries do. All the relevant information is already reported to the IRS.

One of the current problems is that the information is reported in parallel by those providers. Many small businesses print off their employees' W-2s at the same time they print their own tax returns.

Yes, the IRS knows eventually. They don't know by April 15th under the current set of filing deadlines, though. That's a solvable problem, but not as trivial as you make it sound.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#232

Post by inetknght »

tombert wrote: post #160
chrismeller wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, there’s a paper form you can fill out and send in for free if you’re that angry about it.

Sure, that's always an option, but due the complexity of the tax codes, it's very easy to make a mistake when doing everything yourself. For example, I used to work in New Jersey, and live in New York, meaning I would have to file two state tax returns, in addition to the federal. There are weird rules that you can deduct one state's taxes from the other, and then deduct the remainder from the federal taxes. The rule…

How much was the fine? What sort of mistake was made?

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#233

Post by vonmoltke »

justin66 wrote: post #86
vonmoltke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this article on how Intuit is working to prevent free filing, ProPublica focuses on Intuit? Why is this surprising? My issue is that the article, and many posters here, make it sound like all the ills of the US tax system trace back to Intuit. Statements like (emphasis mine) > Intuit fended off the government’s attempts to make tax filing free and easy and > But the success of TurboTax rests on a shaky foundatio…

> My issue is that the article, and many posters here, make it sound like all the ills of the US tax system trace back to Intuit. Nobody except you is taking the article to imply that.

You're right. I think I'm mostly aggravated by the HN lens I'm viewing this through, which seems to be focusing on the tax prep industry while ignoring the forces that made the tax code a mess in the first place. That is evident from the people saying the IRS could just pre-fill the existing forms (which itself is an oversimplification of the situation).

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#234

Post by pm215 »

0xffff2 wrote: post #165
tombert wrote: post #153

I really don't understand why I have to file my taxes to begin with. I have a W2 job, and my employer presumably has sent my paystubs and tax information to the government already. I then have to copy down the information from my W2 into some kind of tax filing software, and then they have to check to make sure that what I typed matches what they have, presumably paying someone to do that if I make any kind of seriou…

It's not terribly difficult to construct circumstances in which the government doesn't know how much you owe them. It's simpler to have a single policy for everyone. Therefore, everyone has to do their own taxes. I really don't think it's more complicated than that.

Simpler for who? It's not simpler for the vast bulk of people whose only significant income is from their employer. It's not simpler for the tax authorities either, who now have to process a lot more tax returns rather than just doing something more straightforward for the common-case.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#235

Post by vonmoltke »

Accujack wrote: post #124
ttn wrote: post #17

Can someone from US explain how come there is still no open source alternative to TurboTax?

There are "tax help" open source programs out there, but online filing (which is the main goal here) is impossible without a corporation working with the IRS to set up access, negotiate protocols, and such. There's no open standard/API/infrastructure or protocol for online filing, so the only option for an open source program to help with that is "print out the whole thing and send it in" which is usually a lot more…

> There's no open standard/API/infrastructure or protocol for online filing, so the only option for an open source program to help with that is "print out the whole thing and send it in" which is usually a lot more trouble (more expensive in time and money) than just paying Turbotax or similar services.

That is the least burdensome part of the process, to me. In fact I used to do that from H&R Block Tax Cut back when there was an additional charge for e-file.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#236

Post by jkeuhlen »

komali2 wrote: post #216
mars4rp wrote: post #193

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a…

Can you expand on why people are "afraid" of lobbyists? The way you write that makes it sound like the elected officials the lobbyists are trying to convince, are afraid of those same lobbyists. What I assume you meant is that ground troops like you are afraid lobbyists will notice your work and pay more attention to your given team of elected politicians. Can you help me understand?

My intuition is that the elected officials are wary of choosing positions blatantly opposite of the interests the lobbyists are pushing for since the lobbyists could easily support a different candidate and put a lot of money into supporting them. So if you don't behave in the way the powerful lobbyists want, they'll get you kicked out of office.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#237

Post by grecy »

fedups wrote: post #117

I like propublica's reporting on this but geez, this needs an award for one of the top HN obsessions. Within the past 7 months: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free; 211 points -- 54 minutes ago TurboTax to charge more lower-income customers; 144 points -- 3 months ago Congress Scraps Provision to Restrict IRS from Competing with TurboTax; 82 points -- 4 months ago Listen to TurboTax…

Americans are starting to wake up to the fact they live in what is by far the richest country, but that the systems in place just make the rich richer, while nothing is done to improve the lives of the middle and lower classes.

In this particular case, the rich are actively using the system to stop an improvement to the quality of life of regular people.

What's the point in living in the richest country in the world when your quality of life is lower than many countries that don't have nearly so much money?

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#238

Post by amq »

gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

In Ukraine there is a government webapp where you can fill all possible tax forms, and they come mostly pre-filled. The only small hurdle is getting the private/public key, it's fast, but only happens upon request or if you have a bank account at supported banks. If you were only on a payroll, you don't need to declare anything at all, it happens automatically.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#239

Post by CDRdude »

0xffff2 wrote: post #211
r0m4n0 wrote: post #158

A few weeks ago I started an LLC in New York. I followed all the simple instructions online and the process was actually very straightforward and easy. I had an official digital copy of proof my LLC existed within an hour. I went to sleep with and thought that there is hope for our government. Within a few days I received a letter from a private company informing me that unless I pay them $1000 to publish the name of…

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but why can't you just call up the newspapers directly and list whatever it is that the law requires?

The newspapers will charge you to run the ad. They have no reason to print that info for free.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#240

Post by benhurmarcel »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #152
gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

In Spain it used to be a Java desktop app as well, the last incarnation of a software that started as a DOS program distributed in diskettes back in 1988. Now it's no longer a standalone program, but a website (not sure which technology, but it runs in current browsers without requiring Java installed, AFAIR). The government makes a draft declaration for you, if it's OK you just have to digitally sign your agreement…

Same in France, it's a simple website. You receive a notification email, connect with a simple login and password, check that the pre-filled form is correct, and validate.
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