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Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

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Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the only one of the GAFAMs that it's not practical to boycott : boycotting Amazon Web Services breaks a large part of the Web.

May I say that I love your use of GAFAM. I always thought FAANG was silly and Netflix was not like the others and was included just to make a good acronym

I agree with the company choices, but the spelling of the acronym worries me that it will be read or intended by some as "gay fam". Particularly since the usage as a generic insult makes semantic sense for disparaging a group of closely related companies...

(I guess it's not the only slur it has to avoid with that letter combination though.)

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate not having privacy but I don't understand singling Google out here. Siri is listening (both on phones and on Apple' homepod), Alexa is listening, Cortana is listening, ... I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off) than I do about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch. Amazon knowing every product I order. My Credit Card and Bank company knowing every business I transact with. My Mac a…

I'm not clear on this - Is Siri or Google listening for anything other than Hey Siri or OK Google?

It can't selectively listen. It processes all audio input for those key words. Once it hears the keyword, it then sends a recording of what you say next to a server.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#294
post #267
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No relationship. Why does the device have to record and send everything to the cloud to provide this experience? I suspect the answer is a mix of "we want to invade privacy" and "it makes the devices cheaper to build since you can put really wimpy chips in them."

> Why does the device have to record and send everything to the cloud to provide this experience? It's everything after the hotword, not everything.

You're getting downvoted, but this is literally baked into the hardware.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear on this - Is Siri or Google listening for anything other than Hey Siri or OK Google?

It can't selectively listen. It processes all audio input for those key words. Once it hears the keyword, it then sends a recording of what you say next to a server.

This is not accurate. At least on the Google home the "wake word" is baked into the hardware and no audio gets through that piece of hardware until the wake word is detected.

Obviously there can be defects, but Google is not getting 100% of the audio from your home.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#297
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No relationship. Why does the device have to record and send everything to the cloud to provide this experience? I suspect the answer is a mix of "we want to invade privacy" and "it makes the devices cheaper to build since you can put really wimpy chips in them."

In the short run, it gives the company three direct benefits for making the technology work (besides the "They can advertise at you better" one that people like to drumbeat on). 1) Context is nearly invisible, and is constructed from dozens to hundreds of data points. Holding state on the user (not just from direct interaction with the agent, but from other services the agent can be aware of) makes a lot more context…

All of these are addressable engineering challenges if privacy were a priority. It's just that privacy is not a priority.

(1) is not that hard, just subscribe to feeds or query cloud services from the device. (2) is harder but could be done by treating the devices as a cluster or sending data up only when it can't be easily recognized and storing it only long enough to be useful in training (and storing it anonymously), and as for (3) the device could store data encrypted in the cloud and that would be fine. A new or updated device just downloads and decrypts the index to its data. There are other workable approaches.

I think the best way to change that is legislation. We need HIPAA-type liability laws applying to all privacy-sensitive data: recorded audio, recorded video, location, etc. Leak someone's location or a recording of audio from their house? That'll be $10,000 per person per incident.

That would instantly transform privacy invasion from an asset to a liability and incentivize companies to minimize data collected and when it must be collected to provide the service minimize the length of the time it is stored.

As it stands literally all economic incentives jump up and down and scream "invade the user's privacy s much as possible!" These are:

(1) Data is valuable and advertisers will pay for it or pay for data-driven ad services.

(2) Engineering privacy-invasive systems is easier than engineering privacy-respecting systems. This is a subset of "engineering insecure systems is easier than engineering secure systems" as privacy is a dimension of security.

(3) Privacy sensitive approaches usually require more compute and storage at the edge, increasing device build cost.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#298
post #214

A few short years ago it was incomprehensible, even in the west, to have what is essentially a permanently bugged house. Now it has been normalised to such an extent that even people who claim to be aware of privacy use Alexa et al at home in a striking display of dissonance. The general public at large has been sold such attractive shiny toys that they don't realise that the price they pay for using them is to uncon…

People used to ask me why I don't use Facebook. I haven't been asked that in about two years. I predict that three years from now the majority will share our views about voice and video recording.

This is such an optimistic and hopeful comment. Thanks. I hope you're right.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#299
post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

> people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes I just can't comprehend it. The reason is "people" lack education in technology. They can barely use a computer these days, with "using a computer" generally means being on Facebook with a browser. There's a very significant divide in this regard that has been growing for decades. And it isn't getting any better. This is why it is nearly imposs…

"The reason is "people" lack education in technology"

This is a dumb statement. Lots of tech people use all of these devices. In fact smart tech people differentiate between machine listening and humans listening.

A Math, Tech person know that the probability of a human listening to my recording is close 0.000001%.

Humans, including yourself, make far worse decisions every day in your life that have much higher detrimental effect to your overall quality of life than worrying about stupid things

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