Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home • Hacker News Board

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#271

Post by mojuba » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

glitcher wrote: post #252

saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

I blame Star Trek. Simply speaking out loud to ask the computer anytime something was needed, it seemed like magical tech. We just didn't anticipate the companies and extra consequences that would come along with it. I would love to see a parody of Star Trek where all the tech is run by an advertising company exploiting all the crew members individually by capturing all their private data around the clock.

I think it looks comfortable in the Star Trek universe because it is implied that voice activated stuff is controlled by a super-AI. That is, the AI won't give humans access to the audio. Which in turn means we are going to have a super-AI that can restrict our rights and itself have access to vast amounts of information about us. I.e. Star Trek is a society essentially controlled by the AI, as it will be above us.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#272

Post by callalex » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

zenography wrote: post #235

auiya wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capability, yes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it's enabled by default?

Siri has been enabled by default since iOS 9[0]. [0] http://ios9news.net/setup-hey-siri/

The always-listening portion is not. Also “enabled by default” still requires active user consent and agreement to plain English privacy terms. It is a step that cannot be missed when setting up the phone.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#273

Post by callalex » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

thecatspaw wrote: post #114

CaptainZapp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze was recommended by family for a trip to Israel. The good news: Available for Windows Phone (which I had at that time) The bad news: In order to use it access to my address book. For a navigation app ? WHAT THE FUCK!

probably to suggest destinations

That would be true if it was optional, not required.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#274

Post by Tarq0n » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

XJ6 wrote: post #12

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #2

>"Gosh, I haven't thought about this before in quite this way," Osterloh said. "It's quite important for all these technologies to think about all users... we have to consider all stakeholders that might be in proximity." How much do they not care about privacy that a chief exec with an army of lawyers and advisors "haven't thought about this before"?

All "big tech" are at it, I tried to go to "My Pictures" the other day and microsoft asked me to run my pictures through facial recognition. They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who appeared in any of my photos or might appear in future which is insane to ask of anyone, no-one can really give that third party consent. Then when I refused they showed me a nag screen which didn't hav…

Google assistant requires a fair amount of data collection turned on to function as well.

GDPR enforcement for this stuff will hopefully happen soon. As far as I can tell this stuff is illegal in the EU.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#275

Post by K2L8M11N2 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #228

greggman2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate not having privacy but I don't understand singling Google out here. Siri is listening (both on phones and on Apple' homepod), Alexa is listening, Cortana is listening, ... I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off) than I do about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch. Amazon knowing every product I order. My Credit Card and Bank company knowing every business I transact with. My Mac a…

I'm not clear on this - Is Siri or Google listening for anything other than Hey Siri or OK Google?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21282405

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#276

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

api wrote: post #254

glitcher wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame Star Trek. Simply speaking out loud to ask the computer anytime something was needed, it seemed like magical tech. We just didn't anticipate the companies and extra consequences that would come along with it. I would love to see a parody of Star Trek where all the tech is run by an advertising company exploiting all the crew members individually by capturing all their private data around the clock.

No relationship. Why does the device have to record and send everything to the cloud to provide this experience? I suspect the answer is a mix of "we want to invade privacy" and "it makes the devices cheaper to build since you can put really wimpy chips in them."

In the short run, it gives the company three direct benefits for making the technology work (besides the "They can advertise at you better" one that people like to drumbeat on).

1) Context is nearly invisible, and is constructed from dozens to hundreds of data points. Holding state on the user (not just from direct interaction with the agent, but from other services the agent can be aware of) makes a lot more context possible. My assistant knows about my calendar, where I've been recently, and my recent emails; it can make much better educated guesses about what I mean if I say "What's travel time to Oakland?"

2) Getting the voice recognition tech itself from 90% accurate to 99.9% accurate requires awareness of the tens of thousands of real-world complicators that never show up in laboratory testing. As Google showed off by bootstrapping their voice recognition tech via Goog-411, they know how to take megabytes / gigabytes of "dirty signal" and use it to refine their algorithms against unforeseen corner cases.

3) Releasing new assistant features can be done atop existing collected data, without requiring months of lag for enough state to build up for the feature to be useful.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#277

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

Hahaha. Sorry, really? Your bloody thermostat requires a consent form now for visitors to your house. This madness should really stop. All these appliances with microphones phoning home your every spoken word should be burned in a large pile. Let's start over, this is not going to end well.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#278

Post by davinic » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

joeblau wrote: post #261

davinic wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Siri is always enabled on iPhones by default.

I don't think it is. When you're setting up your phone, you have to go through the "hey Siri" training to enable it.

This is not true. It has been on by default since iOS 9.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#279

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

saluki wrote: post #149

greggman2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate not having privacy but I don't understand singling Google out here. Siri is listening (both on phones and on Apple' homepod), Alexa is listening, Cortana is listening, ... I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off) than I do about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch. Amazon knowing every product I order. My Credit Card and Bank company knowing every business I transact with. My Mac a…

y, I agree it's not just Google. I think allowing any company or government having an open mic/'smart' speaker, essentially bugging your own home/business is just a bad idea. "I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off)" - are you sure they are off, had to ask. I'm not as worried about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch, product I order or am interested in. I'm more worried about private co…

There's a world of difference between a company or government doing that.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#280

Post by brewdad » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

DebtDeflation wrote: post #24

madez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it were socially accepted to tell people to turn their Android device off while they are in company. I wish I could tell people that visit me to turn their device off or put it into rf and sound shielded containers. I don't mind people using computers and their powers to ease their lives. I don't want to deny them that just because they are next to me or in my home. I just don't want them to use that power to…

>I just don't want them to use that power to collect and track and surveil everything at all times around them Unfortunately, the trend is to stick a camera and microphone (and compute/network stack) on every consumer device sold to you, including TVs and refrigerators. Not sure what the solution is, since the vendors can make a plausible argument for the convenience provided by voice control and additional features…

We recently remodeled our kitchen and updated appliances. One microwave we looked at had Alexa built-in. I couldn't think of a single scenario where I would interact with my microwave without standing right in front of it.

I could maybe see it's usefulness for certain elderly or disabled people but I couldn't figure out why the majority of the population would ever want that.