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Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

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Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#251

Post by soulofmischief »

a3n wrote: post #87
soulofmischief wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have voice-activated assistant on my droid turned off, meanwhile Siri is active on all iDevices, and everyone with a laptop at your place is a mole. Do you expect to altogether prevent people from bringing computing devices into your home? If you are not a state target, then that is just silly. Focus your malcontent on the real bad actors, not their victims.

Actually this is interesting. Some US states require two party consent for recording. Doesn't that make a phone in your pocket illegal in those states, unless you say "I have a phone in my pocket, and it's recording."

Let's travel to such a state and find out for ourselves. We'll flip a coin on who gets to be the defendant.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#252

Post by glitcher »

saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

I blame Star Trek. Simply speaking out loud to ask the computer anytime something was needed, it seemed like magical tech. We just didn't anticipate the companies and extra consequences that would come along with it.

I would love to see a parody of Star Trek where all the tech is run by an advertising company exploiting all the crew members individually by capturing all their private data around the clock.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#253

Post by davinic »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #207
davinic wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But saying "beyond what smartphones are already capable of" diminishes the fact that they are also always listening, and are also generally near where you are. Siri, by default, is always listening. Most people don't understand or know this. People are then amazed when they put their phone on a table and say "Hey Siri" from across the room.

It's very different. Smart speakers are much better at invading privacy.

No one has yet to provide an argument as to why "smart speakers are much better at invading privacy".

For example, just this year my always-on, always-near-me iPhone was subject to an attack where anyone could call me on FaceTime and gain access to my microphone. This attack vector does not exist on my Google Home.

So, why are smart speakers much better at invading privacy?

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#254

Post by api »

glitcher wrote: post #252
saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

I blame Star Trek. Simply speaking out loud to ask the computer anytime something was needed, it seemed like magical tech. We just didn't anticipate the companies and extra consequences that would come along with it. I would love to see a parody of Star Trek where all the tech is run by an advertising company exploiting all the crew members individually by capturing all their private data around the clock.

No relationship. Why does the device have to record and send everything to the cloud to provide this experience?

I suspect the answer is a mix of "we want to invade privacy" and "it makes the devices cheaper to build since you can put really wimpy chips in them."

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#255

Post by soulofmischief »

eth0up wrote: post #242
soulofmischief wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> California requires consent from all present who have vibrated the air while you record the air vibrations One-party recording laws enable us to catch bad actors. Otherwise, you can't do things like record Rob Ford smoking crack and being a racist piece of shit while the incumbent mayor. The fact that you don't have the right to record a conversation you are participating in is not a good thing .

I'll tell of an actual situation that is different, but with similar elements. Guy A arranges for presumed friend (pf) to provide transport for post surgery where benzodiazepines are administered along with local anesthetics. Guy A is still hesitant after 1st dose of benzo, so another is given and surgery proceeds. Afterwards, pf transports intoxicated guy A home, but for whatever reason, they agree to go elsewhere.…

That really sucks. Unfortunately some shitty behavior might not be able to be legislated away if the alternative is severely impactful to the state of civil liberty.

We won't find a perfect law which only allows good behavior, but we can find one that catches the most bad behavior with the least impact on those with good behavior.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#256

Post by scatters »

saluki wrote: post #157
streb-lo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. New phones are. Also, AFAIK, Alexa et al. are only sending traffic home after the wake word is heard. I believe this has been confirmed via wireshark.

That's true a phone has 'smart' speaker features. It seems 'smart' speakers wake more easily than Siri. We hadn't been hearing news stories about FANG employees listening to/reviewing conversations intimate moments until the 'smart' speakers were deployed. I expect this could have been going on with Siri as well though. I'm open to using a 'smart' speaker in the future, there might not be any reason for concern. Curr…

> We hadn't been hearing news stories about FANG employees listening to/reviewing conversations intimate moments until the 'smart' speakers were deployed.

That just shows that the media didn't think those stories would sell.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#257

Post by tick_tock_tick »

cptskippy wrote: post #202
BlueTemplar wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the only one of the GAFAMs that it's not practical to boycott : boycotting Amazon Web Services breaks a large part of the Web.

Does AWS perform end user tracking?

We don't know for sure.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#258

Post by sb8244 »

PeterBarrett wrote: post #148

Having read the short article it's pretty clear that he was simply saying that if you have an indoor nest camera it would be proper etiquette to tell your guests that they are being recorded on your device. From how I read it, he wasn't saying to let your guests know that Nest/Google might be listening. Personally I'd never have one of these devices in my house but I would appreciate it if my friends gave me a heads…

Yes, I read it this same way. I'm not really sure that's an outrageous statement....

I thought initially that Nest meant thermostats and was shocked, but it's pretty clear he's talking about Nest Cameras.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#259

Post by jiveturkey »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #2

>"Gosh, I haven't thought about this before in quite this way," Osterloh said. "It's quite important for all these technologies to think about all users... we have to consider all stakeholders that might be in proximity." How much do they not care about privacy that a chief exec with an army of lawyers and advisors "haven't thought about this before"?

It was not an admission, it was a poorly thought out conversational device. He would have done much better to say, "good question".

In the same interview, in the very next sentence of the article:

> Osterloh then acceded that warning houseguests about Nest devices' recording capabilities is proper etiquette, stating that he already does so.

Given that he already warns his guests, he absolutely 100% certainly has thought about "all stakeholders", in quite that way.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#260

Post by mr_overalls »

saluki wrote: post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

I couldn't agree more. Are there any good open-source projects for AI assistants? There certainly seems to be a need.
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